dh looking for job in UK, I am devastated and don't want to leave, but he hasn't seen another job here....

[ernest]

We moved away nearly 7 years ago to switzerland, 2 of my 3 boys were born here. I love it here. We have a fantastic quality of life. My eldest stared school in August, aged 7, and still only does 5 mornings and 2 afternoons. The rest of the time he's outside playing with his mates.

My middle son is in Kindergarten (5 mronigns & 1 afternoon).

The youngest will start Kindergarten in 1.5 years.

The eldest 2 are bi lingual, the youngest is learning fast.

I basically agreed with dh to move back, he's in a fairly specialisied field and much more opportunities in London than here. He's been looking for a new job for a while & not found anything here. So now he's looking in london.

I thought I was ok with it, but thinking about it, now seemingly an imminent reality I feel truly sick. Sorry, I know you all, or the vast majority live in UK and most of you happy, but I feel we'd loose so much

• the kids would loose their bi- lingualism, ds3 would never even get it.

-they'd have to start school, and go the full day!!! They would hate to be away from me, and me them. My poor ds2 has never even been to school yet (he's 6.5) how on earth would he manage in a school where kids have bbeen going already for a couple of years?? My youngest is too young. He really is.

• Even finding a school and getting a place at a decent one sounds unbelievably difficult.

-they'd loose their freedom, going out to play every afternoon. I constantly read on here parents saying even their 9 year old is not allowed out to play & other such stuff.

• how on earth would we find a house, never mind be able to afford one?
• I'd loose my lovely new home.
• Our health service here is brilliant (if I phone doc a 7.55 am they ask if I want to bring him in straight away! I have never had to wait even a day for an appointment,)

The conjestion in london, the madness, the traffic.

• In the unicef report published last week, UK came out bottom place for bringing up kids, whereas Switzerland feels idillic.
• I have a great support network of neighbours, and we all look out for each others' kids.
• We can get to Austria, Germany etc really easily for holidays etc.
• our family quality of life is really high.
• we'd either have to live in London (used to live in leyton, Wimbledon, Battersea & tooting, so know it & don't want a repeat performance), or we'd move to a village/subburb with the horror commute involved)

OMG, sorry for the mammoth ramble. It just feels like a no win situation. I can't see anything good about moving back to uk, apart from seeing family more, but seems like comparitively small gain.

If I say no, then dh stuck in job he's fed up with. Then he's unhappy. He already is. And now so am i.

I agree. I have just moved lock, stock each time DH got a different job (moving up the career ladder) and there is nothing more unsettling and demoralising than keep upping sticks and moving to a whole new life with no local friends, knowledge or support. I am as isolated as I could possibly be, and I am living in the same country as my family and friends, but too far away from them to be able to get to see them on a regular basis. Most of our communication is done on the phone and, quite honestly, we could be anywhere. I would always recommend that you seek viable alternatives, or at least give them a go, before re-locating your entire lives. It is not just your DH's life and career that are important, but your own and your DCs. Hark at me, if only I could take my own advice...

Your dh will have to decide either family happy or dh happy with job.

Could he get another job or retrain? Could you work out how much money you neeed every month and plans that involve you having enough cash to stay put. Moving is very costly as well - don't forget this.

I know switzerland very well & can understand you wanting to stay.

ha ha, zog, my 'positives' list wasn't in order. Already told dh that if we HAD to move, would only condider se england as mil in kent and sil in wimbledon. really, the ONLY positive would be the family . I bring kids back to uk every school holiday and get my knickers and tea then. but we see family quite a lot cobnsidering, probably more than many mumsnetters, we come to uk 3 times a year for a week or 2 each time, and they come here 3 or 4 times a year. in april we're taking pil to Austria for a week.

Ernest, I am in Fribourg.

I really hope it all works out for you.

Ernest, if you want to CAT me, we moved from Belgium "back" to UK (although I last lived in UK for any length of time back in 1987) kicking and screaming in September. Although we own a flat in Central London, which would have been big enough for us, we opted to continue renting this out and move right out to the country. DH works locally, I commute to London.

I don't know what you'd do about the children's bilingualism. The DDs were learning French at school (and doing well), and both had a good grasp of Dutch. Neither are being continued, despite my best efforts at home.

DD2 settled in much more quickly than DD1 (who is 8). DD1 still feels she "doesn't fit in" here and wants to go back to Flanders. As do we all.

School was not a problem - I just rang the local village school, spoke to the headmaster and asked. London is a bit mroe of a nightmare - it's not enough to have an address, you have to prove that you live there as well.

Our quality of life has definitely dropped, but I don't think it's as bad as we anticipated, although we still don't feel settled and have a garage full of boxes.

Well this is what happens when women don't work and are reliant on the male income. Why isn't he following your career where you choose? A lesson for the children may be? You lose that power and balance when you give up work.

Anyway if you do move back here remember you don't have to send them to school. Plenty of people on mumsnet educate their chidlren at home.

ernest - just wanted to inject a note of realism here . OK, so I've never lived in Switzerland and obviously it's lovely, but...... my life in the UK is great. It really isn't hell on earth. I really wonder where all this horror comes from. We live on a street where all the kids play out together in the street and in the park, we have neighbours that know each other and help out, my kids go to a reasonable school and are happy there, we live within walking distance of countryside and within 15 mins drive of hills and the coast.In the summer we chuck the tent in the boot and drive off to camp by the sea for the weekend. So far the NHS has always risen to the occasion - OK, we've been lucky and had no major problems, but I have no complaints. We're 50 mins away from 2 busy cities - we're off to Bristol to listen to a classical concert geared for kids.

Yes we have some problems and life is not perfect but please don't think that we are all living in abject terror and poverty. The perception of life here have changed over the last 20 years, far more than the reality.

I can see why you don't want to leave but please don't think it's an impossiblity.

Message withdrawn

tbh its hard shit for your dh - the centre of his universe should be his family tell him to get on with it - many people hate their jobs but they dont make their whole family move to another country - that they know is crappier. tell him to get a grip and shut the fuck up moaning

Ahem - Xenia, I know you were referring to the OP but - my DH follows me...

My post wasn't very helpful. I am interested in how couples in marriages where one works and the other looks after the children make these kinds of decisions and how difficult it is to accept your partner's job determines things.

I didn't mind your post, xenia, and some of what you say is true. I decided to give up my job to be sahm (not dh, and not us, I did it) (as a teacher in an inner city london horror comp) and the day I found I was pregnant was total joy, not just for the baby, but so I had a cast iron excuse for leaving! Plus, I don't think my salary would have gone very far to supporting all 5 of us... And to imagine my dh as sahd, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha etc.

But seriously, you're right, there is a balance of power issue, and one that unfortunately comes as part of the territory when one chooses to stay at home. This is one sacrifice I have, and was prepared to make. Each to their own, but for me personally, I chose to stay at home with my children, despite my upbringing in an environment where my mum worked full time since I was born, my grandma, aunties all worked. No men about in our family. Apart from grandad, and he was retired so the only one who didn't work.

Custy, as ever, your to the point reply made me smile.....

Anyway, I digress. Dh phoned from london last night, he was talking more of the ins and outs of commuting from london to here, tho he did reiterate not long term, so we'll see.

OrmIrian, I know what you're saying. I know not everyone's not living in poverty, UK not all horrible etc etc. I mean, I am English, I lived in England for over 30 years. I lived in NE, North, Kent, London, Dorset. I hate London. I hate Kent, (bad experience / memories, from being FORCED BY MY MUM TO MOVE THERE) sorry, not shouting at you. Guess this whole ramble has to do also with the fact I've had to move, against my will, umpteen times, the worst being at age 13 from NE to Kent, and it was a terrible experience. Literally scarred for life. And now I'm happy and settled, and so are the boys.

I go back to Kent and Dorset several times a year, my idea of UK is not just horror films, mumsnet and an over active imagination! There is just so much about the UK that puts me off.

I know some parts of UK good. I love Dorset. But I love it here more.

And I'm sick of moving.

I do somewhat understand where you are coming from. We have almost completed the visa process for Oz and I am terrified.

We have been to Oz quite a few times and the longest was for 3 months, and we loved it, so much so that DH decided that he would like to live there, he has always been quite keen to move out of the UK, we are not planning to emigrate but to go for 2 years or something.

Anyway at first it seemed a good idea and now I think I am mad, DD who is 4 1/2 started at the small village school in Sept and it is lovely and she loves it, DD2 has just started at the small village preschool and again loves it, have a nice house, wonderful friends, family are a couple of hours away. I keep thinking am I stark raving bonkers to give all this up and move to a country with nothing (though I do have a lot of family out there who would help).

The idea is being driven by my dh and part of me doesnt want to put my food down and say no and to have him resent me for it, though he isnt that type but would I always feel guilty. Also part of me thinks a challenge is good for you and it would be a great experience for the girls.

But anyway, my main point is I feel this way about leaving the UK, so it really isnt too bad.

But to be honest the long commute of him working in London and you staying where you are sounds like the best solution at the moment.

Is Switzerland better for your dh if he doesn't focus on the job, because what stood out for me is that you and the boys have lots of time together - does he get family time that he just wouldn't get in the UK. Dh doesn't always like his job or the money, but he likes the fact that he gets home at 5.15pm every night and never has to work weekends and always gets to watch ds's school play etc.

I mean - would he still work stupid long hours and only get home after his lovely boys are in bed each night - because if he will then it makes no sense to move.

Ernest,

Having your DH in London and you staying in Switzerland can work.

We have being doing this for nearly 5 years, although DP works in Germany. We have the other take on it, the kids and I live in London because I refuse to leave! I love my job here, I teach in Hackney, so you can tell i'm slightly mad. DP has been working in Frankfurt but actually has a job interview in Zurich today. He was living near Baden and working for ABB when we first got together.

What we have found is that DP coming home every weekend was just too much travelling, a long weekend every other week has worked well, so has a full week at home every month. He's had a variety of contracts in Frankfurt, at some places he's been able to work from home in London by remote access for a percentage of the time.

I was really daunted when he first went but we are used to it now.

I hope everything works out well for you.

doddle, omg, you're clearly loopy .. That very interesting to here a family in the same (reverse) posotion. And 5 years. wow. You see, I think it would be ok, the commute, but dh thinks it would be terribly hard and only short term possible. Who bears the cost of the 2nd living quaters (does he rent/hose share?) and the travel?
SMall world, him being in Zurich today for interview, and my dh being in London today, for interview. wierd reversal, huh?
I'd be interested in hearing more if you've gt time. What do you teach.

If I were to return to UK, I could start working again. Here it is very difficult to combine work and motherhood, but right now, ds3 is still so little, I'm happy to be with him.

jenkel, your're braver than me, oz is too far. I do miss UK sometimes, like now I'd quite like to go. We wer planning to go in school hols in April, but now taking pil to Austria, so I know I won't be going till July/ AUgust.

There are worse things that could happen to us than to have to move to UK and kids go to school full time, lol. But I'm happy here, love it here, feel we're better off in every way here, so wanted to ask the wisdom of mumsnet if it's reasonable for me to say 'no' I don't want to leave, as 4 people happy here, and dh being the one to suffer, as it were.

Like you say Jenkel, I feel guilty

nearlyfourbob that's a good point, because, certainly at least in the beginning, he would be working stupid long hours, so wouldn't see much of us. While he works long hours here, he at least is here (albeit late) most nights, and every weekend. And is train journey into work is only 35 minuztes, on relatively empty, comfortable, punctual trains. In London, his bus journey (when we lived in Battersea) was 45 minutes on average, tho often a couple of busses would sail past as they were too full and his journey could be a lot longer. If we moved out of london, his commute could be a lot worse, and on top of the long hours.... At least if we did the commute he could try and get a small flat right by the office.

Ernest, you wrote:
"He has friends he misses in London. He hasn't made friends here, other than at work, and many of his work friends have moved to positions in US etc, so now he's feeling a bit socially isolated."

I think this is a major factor in him wanting to move. Perhaps he isn't really searching all that hard for a job in Switzerland? Is that possible? He spends long hours at work, many of his friends at work have upped and left and he finds his job unchallenging. Maybe part of that comes from feeling left behind. If others have moved on to things bigger and brighter, he feels he should be too?

I really think you should go full steam ahead cranking up his social life. Get into some clubs/activities (sport or whatever he likes), invite people round, throw a party. He might see things differently and it's worth a try.

SSShakeTheChi you have got a point. He is crap socially. ALl his mates in uk he met at uni. Now he runs a million miles rather than talk to a neighbour! He won't even mow the lawn in caes he has to say hello to someone. I think he's more socially lazy than a mad agrophobe.

He recognises we need to improve this, be it in CH or UK, and has promised to try. But don't really know where to start.

ppart of it is he's coming up to 10 years in same company and does not want to make the anniversary. he's reaady to move. but yes, our totally non-existant social life needs work.

I don't get it. He'll still have no time for his family, he will still have no mates apart from those he went to uni with (who presumably he'll be too busy to see), he'll still come to hate his new job...

So why move the other 4 members of his family who are perfectly happy?

Presumably when you moved to Switzerland he was thrilled to bits - now he's unhappy. It'll happen again and I think he needs to look elsewhere for his happiness.

Is it reasonable to say no? Now that is interesting. It gets to the heart of power and decision making between couples whether they both work or only one works. Who follows whose careers and choices? Sometimes marriages break up over it. There's no right or wrong though, is there? If he really feels he needs to move back (and I'm very pro UK so I'd be in favour of that option) and you love him and support him then may be you should agree.

What would happen if you refused? I suppose as he earns the money in effect because you have a marriage of economic dependence on him you are shackled in a way to his choices and his money.

ernest, so glad not to be in your position... You are more than reasonable to fight your corner to stay n CH. Nothing would take me back to the UK, having lived in various countries across Europe and seen how good it is here.

Has your DH considered how much time he will have to spend commuting and so how little time he will have to socialize, especially when he will also want to spend time with you and your children?

Has your DH shown clearly to you that he is taking into consideration how you feel about the move and the negative impact it will have on your childrens way of life? If he doesn´t seem to be considering this seriously but is taking a more selfish approach then I would fight more to stay in CH.

to be fair to poor old dh, he did ask me, he didn't just announce, that's it, we're off!

We moved to CH on my instigation. He worked in London for Swiss company and I hated London and was pg and din't fancy the extra nightmare of 2 babies, so I asked if we could come here. I really wanted to leave. And I've enver regretted it. He did move us from Basel to Zurich area becasue of his work. I went along with it.

He did ask what I would consider he did ask me if I would rule out moving away, and I said I wouldn't rule it out, but over time I guess I moved more and more from it not being out of the question to it being more or less a fait accompli. Only when I felt i'd basically said 'yes' did the full horror hit me! lol.

He's still in lOndon. Won't see lim till probably Monday, so will tighten my belt and have 'big talk'.

Actually, you've all been brilliant, it's really helped me see things. I'm actually excited at the prospect of him getting a little flat right by his work, so no journey, easy for city aiport, but also we could come over and actually enjoy what London has to offer, that I couldn't enjoy when I lived there, all the museums etc. When we go to UK, we never visit London, and I would like to. Of course, nothing may come of this particular job, but like I say, I feel it's only a matter of time.

YOu've all helped me see that commuting is the way to go. Just a shame he doesn't feel so keen about it, but maybe once we get into the swing of it, it'll work out. At least we'll then have a clearer idea of our long term future. Like someone else has said, he might go back there and hate it. He would certainly hate a long commute. His parents live in Kent and I suggested even staying with them, so much cheaper than a flat and he had a fit, never in a million years etc etc, but the main thing, apart from having to listen to his dad snoring on the settee every night, was the long journey. One and a half to 2 hours. And that's what he would have if we all moved over.

Thankls guys, I feel a bit more positive about the future after your words of wisdom, and looking forward to regular visits to uk, but being able to return to my little corner of paradise here, lol.

Hi ernest,

just got back, been out all day in London!!

DP has a second face-to-face interview in Zurich on Monday now, the one today went really well.

I teach Primary in Hackney, but i'm a Maths specialist! I really love it, the school is great, my kids go there, we are all too settled to move.

DP's lived in various types of accomodation over the years in Frankfurt. But he does have to pay for it, so it is something you have to factor in. When he first went he had a nice apartment but it was v. expensive. He lived in a nurses' hostel for a while, shared a flat with friends and at the moment he has a friend's spare room. He normally has to pay for the travel home too. That's why he really wants this job in Zurich because it's an English company and they pay daily living expenses on top of the salary.

What field is your DH in?

If you want to know anymore about our long distance family nice, feel free to ask.

That should of course be 'our long distance family life"