AIBU to think we should respect a baby's personal space?

[Susuwatari1]

I'll preface this by saying the way I was raised was to be overly polite ( sometimes to the point of not being able to voice opinions) so I'm probably a little too conservative, but my partner was raised completely differently and there's recently been a bit of a clash. The main issue is the way my partner's dad is with our son ( currently 16months). Whilst he's usually well intentioned there are a few things he does that really irritate me.

when he was younger (from around 6 months)

• calling my baby a 'twit' if he doesn't immediately turn to look at the thing that he wants him to look at, then forcibly turning his head in that direction

• shouting "hello" in a irritated/childish way if he doesn't immediately get the response he wants ie. my son's fascinated by a light and not looking at him (hard to convey the tone in text )

*putting his hand in the baby's face and covering his nose/mouth - no idea why he does this, again probably a way of forcing attention.

I know babies don't have personal space in the same way adults do and that they can't give exactly give consent but there is just something about the way my partner's dad behaves with him that irks me.

I try to be tactful in telling him not to do things by saying stuff like 'generally we try not to put things over his nose/mouth because we don't want him to get used to it and pull his blanket over his mouth in his sleep etc.' but this person just cannot take a hint!

Yesterday he decided to make a video with his camera phone of my son in his highchair using continual flash, imo it was too bright to be holding up at close range and I asked repeatedly if he would mind filming without but he ignored me (and his wife who asked multiple times) and just did what he wanted.

Listening to others is a big issue for him in general, He has an outdated sexist attitude saying he doesn't listen to his wife because has 'more important things to think about.' This attitude has rubbed off on my partner causing a lot of friction in our relationship and I really don't want history to repeat with my son. I feel like his attitude is setting a really bad example and that's more irritating than the fact that he doesn't attempt to control his burping/flatulence ect. I guess the root to my irritation is about more than just bad manners.

The thing that prompted me to post is that recently he's started pointing at my son, sticking is finger right up into my son's face and talking ridiculously loudly to get his attention. It's completely unnecessary, it's not like my son isn't socially active, he really engages with everyone around him, just maybe not always at the exact moment my partner's dad wants.

Now we're home and my son is waving his finger about, pointing at people like he's on the apprentice, something he never did before (he used to make open-handed gestures or wave/nod/smile at people to acknowledge them). It's just a little thing but it irritates me because I was always shy growing up and we're trying to do everything we can to help our son's social skills develope.

I feel like saying if it'd be rude to do to an adult you shouldn't be doing it to my son (ie. someone a 'twit' or getting right up in their face), maybe I'm just over protective but I'm so glad we don't have to visit their house for a while now Christmas is over!

You are being way too polite with this man OP. His behaviour is bullying, abusive and downright dangerous. I remember seeing a dad forcibly turn his son's face towards him by twisting his head - it was a horrible thing to see and this little boy was 4 or 5, not a baby.

How does your partner feel about his father's behaviour towards his son and towards you?

And by the way he's not 'well intentioned' at all. It sounds like all this man cares about is bullying and overpowering the people around him, including a 16 month old baby. What a pig.

OP hasn't been back

Being "tactful" clearly hasn't worked and won't in the future. You need to be tough, and take action. If he does anything you don't like, just say "Don't do that," and if he persists, pick up your DS and remove him. You need to keep him safe, and worry less about FiL's feelings - he's clearly not bothered about yours or DS's.

OP first posted a couple of hours ago, User so put that 'humphy' face somewhere else. People do have other things to do than entertain you, you know.

===

OP... you're absolutely right to intervene but you need to do it much more forcefully. This man should not be encroaching on your baby's space and he sounds a bit of a bully-boy albeit it toned down to child-size.

Your partner needs to back you up on that. Both tell him that he is not permitted to do these things, not with your child, end of.

Babies absolutely do have their personal space, they just don't have the wherewithal to make people respect it, sadly.

There's no way I would allow anyone who behaved like that around my child, family or not. Pp was right about you having a duty of care to your son. Obviously it is your partners dads fault but you and your partner need to be protecting your son from this abuse.

Woah. First of all, I'm so sorry you're going through this. I know a little bit about how you're feeling.

If he ever does stuff like this again, like everyone's saying, you really do have to SPEAK UP ON BEHALF OF YOUR CHILD - even if this man belittles/ignores you. Think of it as speaking to your child as much as to this man. Talk to your kid about it afterwards too, that you don't agree with what happened there and why. I know he's little, but he's big enough to take things in and learn and he'll very soon be talking and forming opinions (if he isn't already). Your child needs to learn from YOU what's right and what's wrong and unfortunately if you don't speak up he's going to learn from someone else, like this man, and as you say yourself, you really don't want that!!

Like everyone else is saying, THIS IS NOT A NICE MAN. I think, as several others have suggested, I would have a big talk with my partner, if I was you, because from what you've said he has a much better chance of being listened to by this -crazy bully- man than you do. AND I would find ways to severely limit the amount of time my child (and I) spent around him... in fact, I would probably try to avoid him altogether.

If your partner really can't understand what your issue is here then you've got some big thinking to do about whether this is an environment you feel comfortable with raising your child in.

A big hug, and good luck.

I'm sure that you as a parent think that you would do anything to prevent harm to your child. Your FIL is harming your child. And you need to step up. You have to get in touch with your inner mother and just tell him. If you have to, get between FIL and DS, and remove DS if necessary.

But first you will have to deal with DH. Which means treading carefully because if he was parented by this man, he will have real problems.

I know it is awkward and you have indicated you are a shy person, but I actually think you would be remiss if you do not advocate for your son and tell your FIL in no uncertain terms not to cover his nose and mouth! And the rest too. Politely but firmly tell him not to do it, if he persists tell him again and that if he doesn't stop you will be leaving, and if he still persists then you leave. Don't allow this to continue and be your DS's voice.

What a weirdo! Who does that to a baby?!

I do actually think though that babies do deserve personal space - of course they are held and have nappies changed etc but I always stop my older children when they 'get in the baby's face" or grab her hands etc - she is a baby yes but she is still a person and shouldn't have to put up with being poked and messed when she can't agree to it or ask them to stop.

Wow, it’s really reassuring to see that I’m not alone in thinking this isn’t acceptable. It’s good to get an outside perspective because everyone is so used to him acting like this that it’s easily dismissed as just his normal behaviour, no-one challenges it. Although my partner does usually agree when I point something out to him (after the event) his general sentiment is 'that’s just my dad'.

A lot of these things he does in a jokey way, so I try not to be overtly confrontational when pointing things out, but the problem is even if you outright say that something he’s doing isn’t ok it takes so long for it to sink in. He doesn’t have any sense of people's personal boundaries - it took so long for him even to recognise that it isn’t ok for him to just barge into whatever room we’re staying in without knocking, for example when I was semi-undressed to BF our son in bed.

It get’s to the point when I’m dreading visiting them; the thing is in some ways his dad as one of the ‘nice guys’ he’s sentimental and generous, he really see’s his role as a provider - but in some ways I think that’s linked to unlimited feelings of entitlement over his son’s (and now grandson’s) life.

(possible trigger warning)

We faced some massive challenges in our early relationship because my partner was never really shown how to value consent. I just never want my son to experience the guilt and heartache my partner has lived through as a result. I hold his dad responsible for that to an extent, when people used to say my son looked like him I’d feel like bursting into tears.

When he does things that I think are out of line, part of me second guesses it because I know I’m prejudiced against him. My partner say’s that I fixate on the past too much, but it’s hard to move on/ find forgiveness if you still see signs of the same types of behaviour (no matter how trivial).

Part of what I love most about being a parent is this chance to guide my son into adulthood by showing him how to value empathetic relationships, how to express himself and how to listen to others. Too much time with OH's family could potentially undo the work we're putting in to building that environment. It is important they have a relationship with him, I just wish we could set the terms a bit more (i.e.. staying at a hotel and not at their house).

Sorry, do you mean your partner raped you repeatedly early in your relationship but you've taught him that's not acceptable?

Surely you don't mean that?

I would also add that by not putting an immediate stop to your fil psychologically / emotionally abusing your lb by calling him a twit, you are enabling the abuse and sorry if this sounds harsh but thats what it sounds like from your post. Most abusers start off doing the 'smaller /questionable ' stuff to see what they can get away with. It sounds ominous that you say you partner never learnt to value consent ???😕 if this is how he treats/talks to a baby it is only going to get worse as your child grows and either he will come to dislike/fear him or worse model that behaviour as he sees his parents go along with it

How to value consent ? What do you mean ?

Oh OP I really hope that didn't mean what I think it means.

He covers your sons mouth and nose? You have a lot more patience that me, if he did that to my child I'd be repaying the favour with a bin bag!!

Then you'd be a)a psychopath and b) the proud owner of a criminal record and probably a prison sentence.

He sounds abusive, if some tried to forcibly move my baby's head i would rip their fucking head off.

Op anytime this man does something unacceptable to your son you need to say to him immediately (and in front of your son) 'please do not do that to him again'

He sounds like a psychopath. I would not have him near my child. What a pillock.

Please step up and protect your DS from this awful bully. Your DS needs you.

Please do not ever allow him to baby sit.......

There's a difference OP between being confrontational and being firm - you don't need to 'confront' FIL's behaviour in the sense of fixing/analysing/challenging/changing etc. you simply need to stop it instantly whenever he does something, to you or to your DS that you don't want him to do. Do it firmly and with the authority that being DS's mother gives you, as in "DON'T do that. Ever."

And in response to "that's just my dad" the reply is "And this is me, and my son"

never really shown how to value consent

That's because his father is abusive and should not be allowed near children. Not an excuse for your partners behaviour, just not very surprising. I really really really hope your partners behaviour is appropriate now because that sounds very worrying

My MIL is very kissy and gets in my daughter's face a lot. I try to speak up everytime. Sometimes I talk to MIL "I don't think she is enjoying that" "if you keep doing that she will cry." Sometimes I talk to my daughter "don't worry, Nanny won't hurt you" (said whilst physically getting in between them).

Part of what I love most about being a parent is this chance to guide my son into adulthood by showing him how to value empathetic relationships, how to express himself and how to listen to others. Too much time with OH's family could potentially undo the work we're putting in to building that environment. It is important they have a relationship with him, I just wish we could set the terms a bit more (i.e.. staying at a hotel and not at their house).

You set the terms. You're the parents, that's your job.

Some of this man's behaviour is absolutely intolerable. The face grabbing, the hand over mouth (wtf?!) both would have had me shouting at him and removing my child from that situation. It's not on, even if done in a supposed jokey way. The other behaviours are not ok either and I wouldn't want my child to spend any time around someone who behaved that way. I think I'd be making it clear to my DH that we wouldn't be visiting again and explain why.

reading through responses (new to this site and didn't realise how the pagination system worked) thank you to everyone who gave advice, sorry for the delay in response.

I think may have painted a pretty harsh picture, and this stuff looks worse than it is out of context, I'm sure that sincere love for their grandson and that he wouldn't ever put him at risk knowingly.

When I say he put his hand over mouth and nose - this was for a second (like he does when he does peekaboo) and he did remove it when I said 'don't do that', but it was enough to make both me and his wife -ask him what he thought he was doing, before his wife brushed it off as 'just being silly.' When he turned his head it wasn't a violent act, it just irritated me because it's disrespectful and inappropriate.

In regards to respecting consent, I can't go into detail and it's a complicated issue, to put it my partner thought he was doing something that would make me feel better but it had the opposite effect, it wasn't his fault I was living with PTSD and he just didn't have the emotional intelligence to understand what I needed and I couldn't articulate it, this was 7 years ago so we've had a long time to process it.

We've been through some of worst things you can subject a relationship to and we've come out the other side, we love each other and we'd both do anything for our son.

Will definitely be more assertive in future.