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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Email from tenant refusing to pay rent tomorrow. AIBU to give notice by return?

299 replies

birdladyfromhomealone · 02/01/2017 22:01

Osting here for traffic also in Legal
Gave notice in September that we would be increasing rent £27 pcm. From Jan 3rd 17.
This is the first increase and they have been tenants for over three years.
Tonight we had an email that they have not signed the new contract or changed their direct debit as although they they agreed to this increase in Sept they now say they want repairs done first.
We had new DG windows fitted just before they moved in 3 years ago. They have managed to break 3 window locks in that time. The first one we replaced within the guarantee but these further two were broken in the summer.
We said they broke them so they should pay to replace them.
There was also a leak from the shower which was fixed at our expense.
We also had to have the ceiling re plastered due to the leak. We went round as planned to paint the new ceiling and the tenant a SAHM had forgotten and was out. A wasted 25mile round trip for us.
We texted and she apologised and has never come back with another convenient time so we left it.
Now they are saying they are not paying the increase tomorrow until we do the repairs.
Thoughts please

OP posts:
iniquity · 03/01/2017 12:10

If they haven't paid the rent at all that is a bit different. If think the landlord should be on the phone to the tenants asap

Sonders · 03/01/2017 12:11

If they've just refused the £27 extra, I don't think they sound that horrific (if it's the full amount that's another story). They're obviously not great tenants and it seems like they haven't been managed that well either.

They've been a bit spoiled (it was very nice of you to upgrade their appliances) and because of this, they expect too much.

Follow advice from more knowledgeable PPs and start doing things to the letter of the law now, and be less naive with your next tenant.

Foureyesarebetterthantwo · 03/01/2017 12:11

This seems a very trivial set of things to evict someone over.

The OP will now have to pay for the locks and repaint the ceiling anyway to let to the next tenants!

This is why I hate renting.

JugglingFromHereToThere · 03/01/2017 12:13

Yes I agree with you Knitted
I think a bit of compassion is called for
All it might take is a bit of communication and small compromises on either side - a minor negotiation about any issues?

MargotsDevil · 03/01/2017 12:16

Knitted surely the time to enter negotiations would have been November when they agreed to the rent increase? Cancelling the standing order for the whole rent (as opposed to not increasing it by the £27) is not what I would call "entering negotiations"... It is an aggressive move and I'm not entirely sure why the OP should be expected to start thinking about the tenants feelings! They withheld rent before the Section 21 was served - they are completely in the wrong.

birdladyfromhomealone · 03/01/2017 12:20

Yes the tenant have withheld the entire months rent until we paint the ceiling, which we tried to do on Sept 12th.
In the interim they agreed to a new 6 month contract with a £27 increase from 3rd Jan. They normally pay us on the 1st of the month ( his pay day) although they do not have to!!
They have not paid or communicated since 8pm last night.
Knitted I guess you are a tenant?
Let me explain to you from OUR perspective =
This is my Mums house- she died and left it to my kids.
We have a small mortgage on it as we borrowed to put in new heating, kitchen and bathroom and rewire.
If tenants dont pay us we still need to pay the mortgage and insurance etc
We MAKE fr our kids trust fund the GRAND SUM of £177 pcm.
I think we should just sell it and put the money in an account for them which will receive no interest.

OP posts:
JugglingFromHereToThere · 03/01/2017 12:21

I guess they (the tenants) haven't played their hand very skillfully, but I feel sorry for them as I don't think they will have realised the possible/ likely consequences of their actions.

Blatherskite · 03/01/2017 12:22

The tenants sound spoilt! They got £75pcm off the rent when they moved in, they wanted a dryer for the LL upgraded their washer to a washer/dryer, they didn't like the carpets so they got them all cleaned and whenever they break something they go to the landlord and say "oops" and it gets fixed. I'm sure when I rented it was a case of 'this is the house. this is the rent. No upgrades and if you break it, you fix it'

But now they're pushing their luck asking for a dishwasher to keep up the the Jones' next door and for the locks little Timmy bust to be replaced and when the LL quite rightly says no, they are withholding rent!

KnittedBlanketHoles · 03/01/2017 12:22

Agressive? I think it's unfair to add fitting a washer dryer to a list of complaints against a tenant when it was done voluntarily by the ll, and ultimately benefits the landlord to not have a tenant drying clothes on their radiators.

I don't think a landlord can claim they've done everything by the book when they don't know what's in the book. Agressive?

I don't think it's right to jump straight to serving notice when the tenant does something to annoy the ll.

Yes, I think a ll should have the ability to pay for not only reasonable repairs and upgrades (the should be a budget for this, which requests or needs are weighed up against) but also, the ll should have reserves for paying the mortgage rather than requiring January's rent from the tenant in order to meet their January mortgage payment. I think that would be the more responsible way to run a business. I know that amateurs ll aren't that likely to have months of reserves, but that's part of the reason why it's not a fair relationship IMO.

I don't think the tenant is being reasonable in this example, but the consequence of being served notice seems so far beyond reasonable as be to heartless and atrocious, IMO. Even people punished for horrible crimes don't have to face not having a roof over their heads. The crime of being a bit of a bad tenant resulting in losing one's home is unfair (and up until now it was really only minor niggles). Yes, it's also unfair on an individual to carry someone else, but that's why I don't think we should have landlords like the OP.

Lorelei76 · 03/01/2017 12:23

I think the tenants have withheld the lot
I think we need a whole bunch of laws re renting but the op is not an evil landlord.

It's a bit cancel the cheque but the shower leak wasn't a leak and repairs should have been charged to tenant. Also op I am not sure why you replaced the washer with washer dryer just because they asked you.

I hope you get this sorted easily but they sound a mare so I fear you may not.

Quintessing · 03/01/2017 12:24

I agree to use an agency next time, but dont fall for their spiel about letting them MANAGE the property for you. This is the letting agents way of making even more money from you, as the tenant can call the agent for every minor thing, and you pay for their maintenance person to come out, assess, fit a screw/bulb, order a part, etc. Naturally the agency gets a good commission on such "repairs". Tenants think they wont have to do anything themselves, and will just call the maintenance department for every little thing, and it will cost you dearly. Really, some tenants cant even screw in a lightbulb and will think of nothing to call out maintenance to look at the "faulty" light.

A couple of examples:
The pull out sofa bed (Ikea Hemnes) was wonky a year or so into the tenancy, claimed tenant, agency sent out a man to look, decide a screw had come lose, go to the builders yard, return with a replacement screw, and I paid £40 per hour plus vat plus cost of a screw, pennies.

Equally when a screw came lose on a drawer, in a chest of drawers. Impossible for tenant to just screw it in herself, maybe dab a little glue to make it stick. Much easier to pick up the phone and call for maintenance.

Suddenly a shelf in the fridge was just broken, and agency decided this was wear and tear and for me to replace, and by the time the maintenance person had been to assess, decide what part he needed ordering, I had to fork out nearly the cost of a new fridge.

The agency having been persuaded by the tenant, that the oven needed a deep clean a month after new tenant moved in, and charged me £50 for that. They said the tenant had not cleaned her oven in a month as she did not realize that SHE had to do it, but if the landlord (me) paid for it to be cleaned ONCE to get the grime out, then she would continue cleaning the oven. (Needless to say we had to scrap that cooker when this tenant eventually did a runner, leaving gas and electricity unpaid). I put my foot down on new paving stones, and a regular gardener for her, it was in her contract that upkeep of garden was her responsibility. My mistake, it would have cost me less to have the lawn mowed once a month, rather than letting it grow wild over a 2 year period.

From my experience, Foxton is terrible if you are a landlord, they just want to fleece you all ways possible on tenants whims, thats who I used when I was a landlord. As a tenant, my landlord used Featherstone Leigh, and they were hardball, looking after the landlords interest (not the tenant) to the point of almost trying to defraud us our deposit by insisting that we had made serious damage to the house (luckily photos we took on moving in date showed the damage was already there, and also visible in their own old marketing materials for the property, they also insisted the property had been professionally deep cleaned prior to us moving in, while it was in fact so filthy that landlord provided a cleaner to come and help me, and together we spent the full day cleaning grime. They wanted to charge me £900 for professional cleaners, but the contract said the property should be left in equal state as found, so I got the same cleaner and we cleaned it together, it could not be more equal....They did not back down until I showed them the receipt from the cleaner from the beginning of the tenancy)

So, find an agency who will be having YOUR back, not the tenants. Find yourself an agency like Featherstone Leigh, not Foxtons, if you are a landlord.....

As a landlord, I have had tenants, and my agency trying it on. As a tenant, I have had the landlord and the agency trying it on. Both can be as bad as eachother.

Marynary · 03/01/2017 12:29

I don't think it's right to jump straight to serving notice when the tenant does something to annoy the ll.

In this case the tenant is refusing to pay rent so it's perfectly reasonable to serve notice.

hollyisalovelyname · 03/01/2017 12:30

The rent is going up £27.
They should try renting in Dublin.
I have heard friends rent go UP by €300 pcm !!!
Awful.

eddielizzard · 03/01/2017 12:31

well they agreed the rent increase and tell you just before it's due. so they're maximising their gain which doesn't contribute towards a mutually agreeable relationship.

i don't blame you for giving them notice. just make sure you do things by the book.

wowfudge · 03/01/2017 12:32

These tenants have paid £900 for a home they have not exactly respected and looked after and the OP has been very accommodating as LL. Fwiw I think evicting them is the way to go. You don't refuse to pay any rent at all when a £27 pcm increase is on the table. You either negotiate or pay it.

The OP's tenants are piss takers. The OP only has their word for it that the child broke the window locks, etc and has dealt with these matters in good faith up to now. If the locks are broken then the cost of repair may be deductible from the deposit monies. I don't think the tenants are as clever as they think they are.

Should the OP choose not to pursue the rent arrears when seeking possession, it is possible to accelerate matters. The OP also has the option of agreeing to provide a reference for the tenant once the rent has been paid and the property vacated on the date set out in the s.21 notice.

EweAreHere · 03/01/2017 12:33

I don't think the tenant is being reasonable in this example, but the consequence of being served notice seems so far beyond reasonable as be to heartless and atrocious, IMO. Even people punished for horrible crimes don't have to face not having a roof over their heads. The crime of being a bit of a bad tenant resulting in losing one's home is unfair (and up until now it was really only minor niggles). Yes, it's also unfair on an individual to carry someone else, but that's why I don't think we should have landlords like the OP.

So they should get to live there rent free? At the expense of OP?

OP as a private landlord regardless of how you feel about private landlords.

OP's tenants haven't paid their rent and have said they won't be paying their rent over something trivial that they can't take this stand over legally.

So, again, regardless of how you feel about private landlords, OP has to come up with money to pay mortgage, insurance, etc on the property. This is well beyond unreasonable behavior, and yes, serving notice upon them to vacate the property was completely foreseeable, should have been expected and is a perfectly reasonable response.

Formerpigwrestler9 · 03/01/2017 12:33

We have a small mortgage on it as we borrowed to put in new heating, kitchen and bathroom and rewire.
If tenants dont pay us we still need to pay the mortgage and insurance etc
We MAKE fr our kids trust fund the GRAND SUM of £177 pcm

The profit from the rent is irrelevant, the real profit comes from the increasing value of your asset, yes you still have to pay the mortgage but once again this is money which is being invested I'm YOUR appreciating asset.

You can't lose because you still own the house and your own home is safe and secure

galaxygirl45 · 03/01/2017 12:34

I would advise you to sell. If you've made improvements, then hopefully that will mean recouping the cost of them. Is the £177 a month you are making honestly worth the amount of hassle you're getting?! My dad has been in rented the last 20 years, and has never had a washing machine provided let alone swapped for a washer/dryer. A condenser dryer works in any room, we had one in our bedroom for years and isn't something a LL should supply. You sound decent and genuine, and sadly you're being taken advantage of. I'd give them notice, and get it on the market. We've recently put an inheritance into Premium bonds rather than a bank account, and already had a fairly good rate of return.

thatdearoctopus · 03/01/2017 12:36

I don't think it's right to jump straight to serving notice when the tenant does something to annoy the ll.

They've withheld rent! That's fairly major.

Formerpigwrestler9 · 03/01/2017 12:38

I would advise you to sell
She won't sell because she thinks house prices can only go up and shes drooling at the thought of how much that place is going to be worth

thatdearoctopus · 03/01/2017 12:39

And to compound their stupidity, not only are they going to have to find somewhere else to live, they're also going to have a bad reference following them.
Or should the OP lie for them?

birdladyfromhomealone · 03/01/2017 12:40

We have heard from the tenant who has said she never intended to not pay the rent but forgot to change the direct debit.
She wants to fix in for a year NOT six months as agreed and is happy to pay the increase of £27 pcm.
She has apologised for not getting back to us for the last four months for us to paint the ceiling which was never under dispute.
The money has been bank transferred straight after the phone call.
It is odd?
We have always responded to her in the past and made repairs ( when we have been given access)
We never do inspections, she has quiet enjoyment of her home. The only time we go round is when she asks us too.
Lets hope this was just a blip and things remain as they have been.

OP posts:
OnionKnight · 03/01/2017 12:41

The tenants sound like idiots.

Soubriquet · 03/01/2017 12:41

She was hoping you would back down and let her get away with it

You didn't. She doesn't want to lose her home so she's now behaving and taking it all back

JoffreyBaratheon · 03/01/2017 12:41

Where's the old Fair Rents Commission? LLs should bemade to justify why a rent should be hiked, and strict guidelines should force rents down to a level that is 'fair' as they used to.

Seems like we have lost all our humanity as a society when we allow private individuals to have such power over other, less fortunate, people. More social housing, and so much it ends the ability of private individuals to profit from other people needing a basic human right - a place to live. WTF is wrong with us that we're allowing this to happen in this country? Slap a section 21 on someone who has paid rent, wants repairs done by the people who ought to be doing them (and seems to resent it), and why on earth should they pay a hike in rent if repairs are not done?

Why not make it as hard for private LLs to evict as it is for councils.

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