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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Email from tenant refusing to pay rent tomorrow. AIBU to give notice by return?

299 replies

birdladyfromhomealone · 02/01/2017 22:01

Osting here for traffic also in Legal
Gave notice in September that we would be increasing rent £27 pcm. From Jan 3rd 17.
This is the first increase and they have been tenants for over three years.
Tonight we had an email that they have not signed the new contract or changed their direct debit as although they they agreed to this increase in Sept they now say they want repairs done first.
We had new DG windows fitted just before they moved in 3 years ago. They have managed to break 3 window locks in that time. The first one we replaced within the guarantee but these further two were broken in the summer.
We said they broke them so they should pay to replace them.
There was also a leak from the shower which was fixed at our expense.
We also had to have the ceiling re plastered due to the leak. We went round as planned to paint the new ceiling and the tenant a SAHM had forgotten and was out. A wasted 25mile round trip for us.
We texted and she apologised and has never come back with another convenient time so we left it.
Now they are saying they are not paying the increase tomorrow until we do the repairs.
Thoughts please

OP posts:
charlestrenet · 03/01/2017 13:03

They hadn't actually withheld it though. She's now stated that the rent is due today, but the money normally gets transferred on the 1st.

MetalMidget · 03/01/2017 13:03

You seem to view anything you do in regard to the property as a personal inconvenience, you don't even do the basics such as investigating why their window locks keep breaking, you issued a notice to evict two days before your tenants had even missed a payment and you are utterly clueless about your legal responsibilities.

The tenant admitted their son keeps on breaking the locks? Despite this, the OP has replaced them. The tenant caused water damage through carelessness, the op fixed it, arranged to repaint but the tenant forgot. The tenant threatened to withhold rent, so the op threatened eviction.

Sounds to me like the op has been more than reasonable, and I say that as somebody who has been utterly shafted by letting agents and landlords in the past.

charlestrenet · 03/01/2017 13:05

So she issued a notice to evict them before the rent was even behind by one day.

wowfudge · 03/01/2017 13:05

Charles the tenants told the OP they were withholding the rent. Rtft - it's there in the thread title and the OP. Fact of the matter is that when their stupid idea backfired on them, they've made a bank transfer.

TimeToChangeFor2017 · 03/01/2017 13:06

I would imagine she's on MN, tbh, and has read this.

thatdearoctopus · 03/01/2017 13:06

They hadn't actually withheld it though.
Yes they had. They stated their intent to do so, and the money didn't go through. The tenant then tried to backtrack by saying she'd "forgotten" to amend the D/D, which is of course bollocks.

Also, today is the first working day of the new year (in England) after a weekend and bank holiday. That might have affected things, although you can still do internet banking at such times.

JugglingFromHereToThere · 03/01/2017 13:06

Sounds like things are getting sorted and have settled down again OP?
I'm pleased to hear that for both your sakes.
Hopefully MN advice has helped a little?

I agree it was a poorly judged move on their part which they have wisely decided to retract and apologise for. Everyone makes mistakes!

specialsubject · 03/01/2017 13:07

profit from a basic human right gets the MN sweety-bleaty-we-read-the-guardian brigade very upset regarding landlords.

they are quite happy to pay for food, medical care, water and so on. I am still awaiting an explanation of the difference.

user1481838270 · 03/01/2017 13:07

The tenant here has done you a big favour.

You are charging a below market rate in rent. While the tenant was a good tenant and paying rent, it would be difficult to justify a substantial increase the rent to market rate or ask the tenant to leave.

In any circumstances where the tenant refuses to pay rent, the landlord is left with very little choice but to ask the tenant to leave. In these circumstances, asking the tenant to leave is a complete no-brainer.

charlestrenet · 03/01/2017 13:12

I have read the fucking thread and I suggest you do the fucking same. The rent wasn't due until today. One of the window locks was repaired and the other two have not been despite not working since the summer. If I - as a homeowner or a landlord - had bought new windows three of which were damaged within the space of a year - I would certainly be investigating as to why it happened, in the absence of a toddler who is really Iron Man in disguise.

Formerpigwrestler9 · 03/01/2017 13:12

I don't pay for medical care
Schooling is free

aginghippy · 03/01/2017 13:14

She never intended to not pay the rent but forgot to change the direct debit.

She is clearly lying to you. She never forgot to change the direct debit. She emailed you on Sunday to say they had not changed the direct debit because they wanted the repairs done first.

She was hoping you would back down and you didn't. When she realized she was in danger of losing her home, she changed her story.

I agree with pp that she is likely to do this kind of thing again. You can't trust her. IIWY I would be following through with the s21.

thatdearoctopus · 03/01/2017 13:16

And of course, if she doesn't like the seemingly terrible conditions at the OP's house, she could always look to move to, say, another house on the same street. For a similar rent.

Oh, wait!

SoupDragon · 03/01/2017 13:18

in the absence of a toddler who is really Iron Man in disguise.

Does it say he is a toddler?

JugglingFromHereToThere · 03/01/2017 13:19

I do think one way you're looking at things isn't helping here OP ....

You said you're charging less than market value because you are saving on agency fees but then you seem to slightly begrudge all the work/effort required to maintain the property.

I think if you were quite reasonably charging market value rates you could feel that you were earning that extra amount through taking good care of your tenants and property.

In the future this might lead to better feeling all round, or at least be better for you!

In the meantime I hope you do work things out with your current tenants.

giraffesCantReachTheirToes · 03/01/2017 13:20

As a Tennant I have broken the washing machine by leaving hair grips in. I got it fixed at my own expense. I've been there 8 years and never had a price increase. There are a few wear and tear things I'd like done and if she wanted a price increase I'd probably say I'd like them done in that case. But if I'd broke the locks 3x no way would I expect her to pay.

I locked myself out once. And I phoned and said I'd drive from Glasgow to Perth to get the keys. I'd no intention of making her do it at all. Luckily her husband was working in Stirling that day so I drove there instead. But it was my fault.

I think it looks In your op that you begrudge doing the basic repairs...but further on its clear it's from their negligence link shower tap etc. So that's totally understandable.

Sounds like their breaking stuff all the time totally needs an increase in rent to cover it!

I ruined the ceam rug my land lady had. I binned it and have bought her a new one. I'd never expect her to pay for my mistakes.

wowfudge · 03/01/2017 13:20

Don't be so disingenuous - the tenants told the OP they were withholding rent pending completion of repairs to items broken or damaged by them. I doubt their child is Charles Atlas - more likely they have broken the locks.

inlectorecumbit · 03/01/2017 13:21

I would still evict - she has tried blackmail -it didn't work. Now she says she wants the rent fixed for 1 year instead of 6 months. It will continue to be on her terms.
Give her notice then find an agent to manage the house charging the market rent.

thatdearoctopus · 03/01/2017 13:23

Actually it doesn't, but no matter.

And to the person who accused the OP of not bothering to investigate the broken locks, she said earlier, "The double glazier says the window locks are being forced and will not replace FOC now the guarantee is out of date" which shows she did get someone round.

0nline · 03/01/2017 13:23

I don't pay for medical care
You do, via your national Insurance.

Schooling is free
Education is funded via your tax contribution

Nothing is free free. It might be no pay at the point of provision. But you are still paying for it via funds raised in taxes.

thatdearoctopus · 03/01/2017 13:28

you seem to slightly begrudge all the work/effort required to maintain the property.

I don't see it as grudging. She's just mentioned it as part of setting the scene for posters on here some of whom still don't take it in. Basic maintenance is one thing, repairing negligent damage is another, although she has done this too.

But re-modelling the kitchen layout because the tenant fancies a dishwasher like the neighbours (who are, incidentally, paying £100pcm more rent) is an ask too far, in my opinion.

bringbackopalfruits · 03/01/2017 13:30

Glad it's all sorted, OP you sound like a very good landlord who tried hard to resolve the situation.

Formalpigwrestler - why the bile towards the OP? If the tenants had indeed not paid their rent for a spurious reason, she would have been totally within her rights to give notice. If the OP had said she was considering serving notice because her tenant had had a bad month and was really struggling to find the extra 20 quid in Jan, then yes is think she was being harsh. That's not what happened. Your posts just make you sound envious and bitter.

Marynary · 03/01/2017 13:33

I'm glad it is sorted. They were probably just chancing their arm but have now realised that you are not going to be a pushover. I certainly wouldn't evict them if they have been good tenants in the past but I would watch out in the future.

RandomMess · 03/01/2017 13:36

I'm glad it's been resolved for now op. I think in reality you need to look at whether to slowly/fairly/in line with inflation do the annual/6 month increase in rent but in doing so spend more on the property so it does stay maintained.

I do think your tenant has been a chancer and complete overlooked that they are still paying probably more than £100 pcm less than the average market value!

greenfolder · 03/01/2017 13:40

Fwiw.
The £27 increase is fair and you would be sensible to do a small increase in line with inflation at least yearly. My colleague rented a house for 4 years with no increase then the rent was put up by £250 pm. She could not argue either legally or morally as it was in line with market rents. But the ll would have been better off just increasing by a modest amount annually
If they pay faithfully on the first of the month then consider letting them onto a rolling tenancy. You have your section 21 in place now.