Do I really need to have difficult brother for Christmas ever again?

[NearlyMonday]

My brother behaved atrociously over Christmas.

We're both in our 40s, I'm a few years older than he is. I'm married, I have friends, I enjoy company and would describe myself as sociable. My brother (let's call him John) has always led a solitary life. He's deeply religious, but doesn't appear to socialise with his church group, he lives alone, works alone, and to the best of my knowledge has never had a relationship and never mentions any friends. Over the years he's got more and more anti-social and intolerant, and his social skills are very poor. We only see him at Christmas, he lives in a different city, and there's only sporadic text contact the rest of the year.

I'm the only member of our family who will have him for Christmas, Mum died 10 years ago and he doesn't get on with Dad. I can't blame other people for not wanting a bad tempered, judgemental individual for the festive season, and I only invite him out of duty these days - I've given up trying to encourage him to be cheerful/sociable, and am getting fed up of his negative demeanour.

DH and I had the chance to go away for a few days over Christmas, I agonised over whether to invite John, but didn't have the heart to leave him alone over Christmas, so I invited him along. He seemed pleased, and I crossed my fingers and hoped for a pleasant few days.

Silly me. He was terse, unpleasant, wouldn't speak unless spoken to, made a huge fuss about denouncing alcohol, and in the end DH lost his temper, told him a few home truths, that I always try my best to include him, and he can't even be remotely pleasant. He was slightly better after that, no more snapping, but he still continued to be derisive, judgmental and negative.

But I was at the end of my tether by the time we got home - and I've resolved to have a John-free Christmas next year. Why should I put up with this just because we have the same parents? Please tell me it's ok to bin toxic relatives? Surely it can't fall on DH and I every year, where do our responsibilities end?

His own father doesn't have him for Christmas - you have done so for many years. I don't think you've anything to feel guilty about after your description of this year and can put "family duty" into perspective.

I agree- my son has aspergers and he would be like this without support and a concerted effort from us.

Having just read some of the posts about people with aspbergers I'm feeling quite emotional.

I would try to ask him in a non confrontational way how he felt about Xmas and try to work out if he enjoyed it. It sounds like he did try to change his behaviour. I would be tempted to give him another chance perhaps not at Xmas.

(BTW I have a difficult relationship with my family and I have confronted them in the past and things have improved significantly. I think people deserve honesty before they're dropped.)

I would disagree with BlueFolly's use of the work "usually", but in essence they're right.

We have my DF's cousin up every year- he's a crotchety old man who takes delight in being overtly rude to people, telling the same repetitive stories (usually about arguments over car parking spaces) despite everyone's eyes glazing over, bitching about those who aren't there and when a meal is served he'll sit and pick it apart in front of the person who prepared it. At the end of the dinner he'll say, "it was just alright" when everyone else is doing the decent thing and saying, "that was lovely, thank you so much". My DF and DUncle are the only two members of the extended family who'll have anything to do with him any more because he's fallen out with everyone else. If it wasn't for them he'd be alone at Christmas and to be quite honest he'd only have himself to blame.

I do have sympathy for the OP's DB. It may well be that he's fallen out of the way of socialising and so any practiced social skills have been long forgotten- obviously particularly relevant if he's on the spectrum as others have suggested. It's hard to see how him coming for Xmas makes anyone in this scenario happy. He's never going to get used to spending time with people when he's only doing it 1 or 2 days out of the year, and you can't make him cultivate a social life over the rest of the year (however much you might want to!). The OP and her family shouldn't be obliged to be used as a punching bag for her DB out of guilt if he's not prepared to make some effort in return. He might have his problems but he's an adult, and if he didn't take the DH's warning on board he can't be surprised when people no-longer wish to go the extra mile for him.

The poster did not mean it like that and perhaps you know it
What rubbish. Both assertions. The poster meant exactly what she said - if you're alone for Christmas its because you aren't worthy of company.
Perhaps I know it? I know what I can read.
The poster did not mean? Your mind-reading is superior, is it?
Pfft.

But even if John does have asbergers (and I'm not qualified to diagnose) should we still have to invite him, generally at the expense of our own Christmas?

I simply don't have a close enough relationship with him, to sit down and talk it through.

I'm all for a bit of friendly honesty. I think I'd probably send an email saying something along these lines
Dear John I'm writing because I realise that you didn't enjoy yourself at Christmas with us very much this year and I felt it would be better to talk about it openly with each other. I'm very disappointed that you seemed so unhappy and critical about the way we hosted you. We had actually made a big effort to make a happy family occasion for us all. Obviously our expectations are very different! For this reason I think it would be better if we don't try to meet together at Christmas next year. I'm sure you understand. Hopefully we'll manage to meet up at other times of year instead. Love Monday

Then see what happens. Is he shocked and horrified that his behaviour was taken wrongly or relieved he doesn't have to play the part of Uncle Scrooge any more.

Don't invite him again.

If he asks why he isn't invited, point out that when you did invite him, he was tetchy with everyone and complained about everything, so you can only conclude that he doesn't enjoy visiting you and you won't be asking him to visit again.

It is, as people have suggested, possible he has a form of ASD. But it is equally possible (and probably statistically more likely) that he is just an arsehole.

And even if he does have some type of ASD, he is an adult who works and clearly manages perfectly well by himself - you're his sister, not his carer. You're not responsible for him. He's probably also getting along absolutely fine without friends; lots of people are. It doesn't sound like he enjoys being in company at all.

I think I would just leave it at that, tbh. YANBU.

BlueFolly
when people are alone for Christmas there's usually good reason

Yes, they have abusive fuckwits for families and have gone non contact for their own sanity.

Or did this not register with you?

I agree with calmly suggesting that he appeared not to enjoy himself and as a consequence you don't plan to host next year. Tell him now and he'll have plenty of notice to make other arrangements.

It's difficult. We would invite my Aunty for Christmas every year. She used to tell us our presents were shit, burp her way through dinner and the minute she finished she would demand we take her home immediately. A complete PITA - my folks were the only relatives, including her own children, still on speaking terms with her.

She's no longer with us and in a weird way I miss her every Christmas!

As some others have also suggested it sounds to me as if he could have ASD. To behave like that I would assume that he has a very tough time on a daily basis and probably feels very anxious and lonely - despite outwardly appearing to not want company. If you follow 'The Girl with the curly hair' on Facebook, her posts can give you an insight into living with ASD and how celebrations such as Christmas can be very difficult.

Wow, there's some real over reactions to what I said, some of you sound really angry.

The idea that saying that being alone at Christmas is likely to be a consequence of your own actions, is the same as victim blaming people who have been raped is just unhinged

There are actually people in this world who are socially awkward, belligerent and uncaring of the feelings of others. Some of them know this and take pleasure in it.

Not everyone is "on the spectrum".

If I had a pound for ever time this was posted as a reason for socially inappropriate behaviour on MN I'd be a billionaire at this rate.

Some people are just miserable cunts.

OP - it's your life. Don't ruin another Christmas based on an obligation I doubt your parents would have wanted you to feel.

Meet him at other points in the year - Easter for example if he is religious.

"EatsShitAndLeaves

There are actually people in this world who are socially awkward, belligerent and uncaring of the feelings of others. Some of them know this and take pleasure in it.

Not everyone is "on the spectrum".

If I had a pound for ever time this was posted as a reason for socially inappropriate behaviour on MN I'd be a billionaire at this rate.

Some people are just miserable cunts.

OP - it's your life. Don't ruin another Christmas based on an obligation I doubt your parents would have wanted you to feel."

Exactly. Using that "explanation" is lazy. And tiresome.

He's solitary all year and then has to spend a few days being sociable - it's never going to work.
Long term though he can't live like that. He might not be on a spectrum though and I imagine living like that generally is not good for his mental health and probably can't cope with the change.

Don't write him a 'dear john' letter!
Not unless you want to make him feel shit and like you're done with him.
That's so mean.

Send him an email or something, no need to mention your christmas plans for next year.
Give him your observations, that it feels like he doesn't really want to be there, that he's doing it out of duty, and everyone ends up having a miserable time.

So from now on, he can contact you when he feels like talking/meeting.
Pass the responsibility of keeping your connection alive back to him.
If he doesn't contact you - that's his choice.
If he does, don't invite him to anything unless you've met up beforehand and things have improved.

Some people deserve to be on their own because of their behaviour and attitude.

Keep in loose touch as you have been, see him at least once a year, but not at Christmas. Your ideas of a good Christmas are clearly completely incompatible. I would give him plenty of notice of this, though. Perhaps in June invite him for a night in early December "because we won't be able to see you this Christmas".

Or bin him if you consider him irredeemably toxic. That's your right too.

We had DP's brother almost every Christmas and New Year for 25 years, and it was always a joyless, thankless experience. He has little interest in conversation, does nothing to help, contributes little, but grabs all he can.

Gradually, DP began to see that his brother wasn't his responsibility, and in 2014, brother said and did some things (during an 11 day stay) that hurt DP (he didn't bring so much as a card, let alone gifts) so in 2015, his brother only came up for a few days at New Year. They haven't spoken since, and his brother hasn't been up this year. DP is adamant that he will never ask his brother for Christmas again. To be honest, it's been a relief not to have to deal with DP's brother and his laziness, greed, lack of conversation and lack of anything other than the most basic level of courtesy. What he has done this Christmas, what he'll do in future years, I neither know, nor care.

OP, from what you've said, you owe your brother nothing; you've gone above and beyond. You don't enjoy Christmas with him, so don't do it ever again. Don't write or call to explain, just don't invite him. Have Christmas how you want it, with people you want to spend it with, and who want to spend it with you.

Ah op, I sympathise! I have this with my dad, and I do think there is a reason some people have less options than others at Christmas (that excludes illness, death etc which are completely awful and different). He is critical, bitches under his breath, slags off everything and is generally miserable. At what point do you save your own Christmas? I don't know. We went on holiday on Christmas Day one year it was great! I'm rambling, I wish I knew the answer but I don't. I also get so wound up by his attitude that I'm stressed out before and it takes me days to unwind after.

OP, be careful about writing or emailing. Why? Because he may reply that, no, he's enjoyed himself and does want to come again and that will guilt you into inviting him and repeating ad infinitum.

By all means tell him you are doing things differently and give him plenty of notice bu be really careful how you word it to avoid this situation arising.

It doesn't matter here whether he has an underlying issue or not. He must realise his behaviour isn't within normal limits because OP has told him. He can't or won't change so see him at another time when it doesn't matter to you so much.

Thank you so much for all the replies. I''m not convinced he has any sort of 'on the spectrum' issue, because he did improve slightly when DH had it out with him. Also, over the years I've noticed he shows better manners/behaviour to other relatives than he does me (he probably thinks that because I'm his sister, he can get away with it).

I agree with the posters who've suggested that lack of social skills and general misery are not always caused by a medical condition.

I''m going to leave things for now, I simply don't feel like any contact with him at present.