I'm in THREENAGER HELL!!!

[RedRobinBreast]

Ds2 (3) is such a handful, and that's putting it politely - he ignores literally everything you say if he doesn't want to do it purposefully goes out of his way to disobey, disagree and argue, is unbelievably stubborn, has between 20 and 30 meltdowns a day (this is not an over exaggeration) and is just generally a nightmare. When he is lovely, he is really, really lovely but when he is a terror Satan himself would be terrified. I don't want to break his spirit, I adore his fire, but I do need a way to help direct it! Giving him direct instructions doesn't work, giving him choices doesn't work, consequences doesn't work, we even tried time out and that doesn't work - he literally says he doesn't care and doesn't seem to give a hoot - unless everything is his way he is a nightmare! I end up with a raging headache at the end of every day and if I'm honest I dread whole days with him as it is such hard work. Please don't get me wrong, I love him and would literally go to hell and back for him, but I am at the end of my tether - AIBU to ask how do others cope with determined and difficult toddlers? Ds1 was a breeze in comparison!

Another vote for the Dr Laura Markham book (it's a combination of happy parents, calm children) and Playful Parenting by Laurence... someone.

My DS is only 27 months so have all this to come -eeek!-- but some
Of the strategies have helped with being two! I like the wish granting too, and lots of warning for what is going to happen and in order. E.g. Change nappy then we will go to the park.

I also want to point out that responding with empathy, not doing time outs / naughty steps / punishments etc is not mutually exclusive to setting firm boundaries. You can still be clear for beahvioural expectations and strict (for want of a better word) whilst being loving and supportive.

Oh dear and I told my db & sil that 3 would probably be much easier than 2 - looks like that's probably wrong.

Op I don't have much experience of 3yo so feel free to ignore me.

My approach would be to ignore bad behaviour (unless very bad) and overly praise anything good. Turn things into a game also, e.g. I bet you can't tidy up your toys in 5 minutes.
When he has a tantrum, as long as he is safe, ignore it as I think fussing over an already over excited child can just make them worse.
I think time out can be effective but you have to give a warning first and then follow through immediately if the behaviour is repeated. I would combine this with something positive also, sticker chart or something similar?

Threenagers are very hard work op, you have my sympathy. Terrible twos were nothing for us, but by three their vocabulary and 'reasoning' is better developed and they're capable of epic tantrums.

We used a variety of methods - bribery, races (to get dressed etc), 1-2-3, giving him choices, time out (reserved for aggressive behaviour only such as hitting), getting him to figure out consequences ("ds, if you do that, what do you think might happen?"), rewards, ignoring bad and rewarding good and finally just choosing our battles carefully. It's a really rewarding age as they're becoming so interesting, but it's incredibly frustrating as they can be so strong willed and independent. I have a spirited one too and it was hard finding a balance between not crushing his spirit yet being consistent and firm.

There are a couple of references on this thread to not wanting to 'break the spirit' of a child. I am curious as to what people mean by this. Unless you replace time out and no sweeties with building the bridge over the River Kwai, I am not sure how most normal parenting strategies would risk this outcome. Serious question.

I don't think trifle has said anything that wouldn't necessarily be good advice.

I personally use time out and quite strict consequences for my just 4 yr old, and my 2 yr old. They are both intelligent and well able to comprehend that they are being removed from everyone's company for dangerous or very bad behaviour. I can tell you that their spirits are certainly not broken by it. Both are well mannered, lively, happy and normal children. They have plenty of 'moments' but it's all part of learning. But I am certain that they wouldn't have such good manners and behaviour without strong boundaries and time out as a punishment. That sounds like we are super strict and yes we are but also let plenty of normal tantrums pass with a hug when we feel it's not under their control or ignore some of the general spats until it gets too much for everyone. So I do believe in proper boundaries and punishments and in this way feel they are sure and confident of how to behave.

OP your 3 yr old sounds worse than what I've ever had to dealer their I personally would be taking a stronger line with him. I'm not there though so have no ability to judge if there are additional problems needing addressing or being sensitive to in the process.

Thanks all - I did ask how other people handle their 3yr olds and welcome all the advice. Of course we will consider what works best for us and our family. Yesterday was a particularly bad day but today he has come out in a cold and conjunctivitis this morning which may explain why I had a desperate need to reach for a glass of wine by the time I got him to bed last night. I have some experience of children with additional needs and do not at this point suspect this with my son, he is extremely willful and spirited but for the time being I think that's it. He can have the same behaviour at nursery (though rarer) and they have a tactic of swapping people with him - i.e. he goes into battle with one worker over something and another he'll be as sweet as pie with over the exact same request. Thank you for all the thoughtful advice on here - I do think Christmas is making it worse and I have a big exam next week related to work so all on edge a bit. I feel bad about my first post as it underplays all the lovely moments with him - he loves to cuddle, loves to dance, loves to sing, loves it when he gets one-on-one time with either me or DH (in ref to a pp we do try and give both the boys one to one time at least once a week - i.e. a special morning out with either me or dh). I do think he is very bright and this is half the problem he wants to do everything his big brother does, but at the same time he wants to be the baby. Thanks again everyone.

You can't reason with toddlers. There has to be immediate consequences that they understand.

If they kick or bite, tell them kicking and biting hurts and is not allowed. if they do it again, say "if you do that again, I'm going to have to put you on your own, because you are hurting people" third time, follow through "because you keep kicking and biting, you're going to be put by yourself so you can't hurt people any more" and put them in time out.

When they have calmed down, explain why they were put in time out and ask them if they are ready to stop hurting people.

Staying calm is key. It's bloody hard, though.

Hi there, my son is only 26months but sounds similar and so does our parenting style. When he melts down at playgroups because someone wants to play with the toy he's playing with, I say it's
X's turn and hold him back to make him take turn (during which he screams theoughout), but I am holding him and talk comfortingly as he's upset. He's not yet verbal and the frustration he must be feeling is making things worse, but also makes me less confident than with his chatty sister that he is understanding me, so reasoning/explaining is harder. I am reaching the point where I think a firmer approach is becoming appropriate, but I'm hating it! He gets angry, but he's also so upset, and it's not his fault he's inherited my temper and is unable to control his feelings yet, and I feel so sorry for him that life makes him so miserable at times. And so I struggle to tell him off for his instinctive reaction. But I also feel worried that this gentle parenting style isn't perhaps teaching/helping him to learn to control his feelings as quickly as firm boundaries might have, and so worried that my own instincts aren't helping him...
It's been really interesting and useful to read these comments, some great advice for you, and for me!
A bit scary to see that 3 may be even harder than this though! Yikes!

I have two just turned 4 year olds. We had a nightmare year but things are slowly getting better. Dt1 is now calm and pretty reasonable most of the time, dt2 has some awful moments but has really calmed down recently.

I hated being a mother when they were three. I felt like the worlds worst mother as I seemed to be struggling with everything. This Christmas break has (mostly) been loveky, we've done cinema trips, hot chocolates in Costa, shopping and generally had fun together. They are becoming more fun and bearable lately.

I was strict with mine, I had to be as we had two of them running circles around us. We often did time outs to bedrooms as this was the only way I didn't lose it completely.

No idea if it works but I heard of and like the idea of a 'snow globe' or similar for time out / reflection time / stop hitting me you little shit whatever you want to label it as time.

Let them shake it whilst angry and then watch all the pieces fall back down. By which point, apparently, the therapeutic affect will ease the tantrum.

No idea if it works but sounds a good theory!

That sounds like a lot of meltdowns. Have you checked things like hearing or for any developmental delay which might be adding to the frustration? Or anything like problems with stimulation or sensory? Assuming this is all okay I think you just need to stay consistent and look at whether they need challenging and the behaviour is a reaction to boredom or looking for attention. I have a 2 yo whose behaviour has been horrific. Without us recognising it, he actually needed a lot more stimulation. He was also looking for some attention and had learnt that 'bad' behaviour got him a reaction.

Naughty step worked with mine at 3, but only as punishments for poor behaviour. I have never seen a 3 year old (in my experience) have a full on toddler style tantrumn over anything - three is not a toddler as they can talk by this point and be reasoned with- all I can suggest for that is basically treat him like an actual pre-verbal toddler of 1-2 and hug him through it. To be honest it seems like (if he hasn't got any other SEN) that you have spoiled him big time & so he'll just need to go through more tantrumns as he learns that you mean what you say. There's no way around it. Don't stop saying no because you're scared of a meltdown - that's poor parenting.

I can't say I've read through every response on here as there are so many, but my survival tips for tantrums are; praise good behaviour in a big way, high five every good deed, tell them you're proud etc, and even give them a marble/button/token in a jar to save up for a good behaviour reward. You don't have to buy anything, maybe a trip to the park or an inexpensive toy. Whenever they start to melt down suggest that they could earn a marble for the jar if they just did x. Another blinder that appears to work, we have a cleaning song. Whenever I want them to help me tidy I stick it on and they suddenly become happy/er to help. Distraction is also good. Failing that, I pretend to cry. This works amazingly on my 2.5 yo who comes over, hugs me and then agrees to assist with whats required. Anyway good luck!