I'm in THREENAGER HELL!!!

[RedRobinBreast]

Ds2 (3) is such a handful, and that's putting it politely - he ignores literally everything you say if he doesn't want to do it purposefully goes out of his way to disobey, disagree and argue, is unbelievably stubborn, has between 20 and 30 meltdowns a day (this is not an over exaggeration) and is just generally a nightmare. When he is lovely, he is really, really lovely but when he is a terror Satan himself would be terrified. I don't want to break his spirit, I adore his fire, but I do need a way to help direct it! Giving him direct instructions doesn't work, giving him choices doesn't work, consequences doesn't work, we even tried time out and that doesn't work - he literally says he doesn't care and doesn't seem to give a hoot - unless everything is his way he is a nightmare! I end up with a raging headache at the end of every day and if I'm honest I dread whole days with him as it is such hard work. Please don't get me wrong, I love him and would literally go to hell and back for him, but I am at the end of my tether - AIBU to ask how do others cope with determined and difficult toddlers? Ds1 was a breeze in comparison!

I have 3 DS and by far 3 is the hardest age of all, my older 2 are 9 & 6 and my youngest is now 3, I don't really have any advice, we all just muddled through

I completely sympathise. I have my own little threenager too!

Of course all 3 year olds are different and some are more strong minded than others.

In my own experience having a clear routine, being strict and consistent are the key to a calm life. Routine for us means that I have to be firm and have set times for getting up, having breakfast, what the options for breakfast are, meal times, nap times, bathtime, bed time etc. Generally, the more we deviate from standard routine, the worse his behaviour. Not saying we don't have nice days out, but if doing something new and exciting I'll try and keep as much else as normal as possible.

I'm no toddler expert, but knowing what the 'rules' are, where the boundaries are, appear to be really important at the moment. So this means being really strict whenever establishing a new rule. E.g. DS doesn't go in his buggy so much now so walking around car parks, into town, crossing roads etc is pretty new to him. I enforce the rule that he HAS to hold my or DH hand. If he doesn't we don't go any further and might even go back to the car until he agrees to hold hands.

Also being clear and consistant. I don't have a conversation if I'm telling him what he needs to do. It's a simple - 'Stop' 'Stop now!' I also am very conscious of not making empty threats. If I offer a choice I have to be willing to follow through with both options. Never make a threat that you won't enforce.

Oh and food is also a big trigger factor for behaviour for my DS. If he has squash with artificial stuff in, chocolate, sweet stuff... most processed foods, he'll turn bonkers and won't listen to a word I say! But if he's hungry he'll also get very emotional!

It sounds like you've tried lots of things OP. I'd say come up with a plan and just stick to it. Don't expect quick results. Keep firm to your rules for at least 3 or 4 days before changing things or giving up on one tactic. You don't want to confuse him. Good luck!

I have a 3 year old DS (4 next month) and gosh it's such hard work!

I'm in a slightly different boat to you as DS is currently being assessed for a Sensory Processing Disorder, so a lot of our issues may be down to that.

Re: sending to bedroom. I encourage DS to go to his bedroom when he's getting too wound up. I ask if he needs some quiet time in his room. I offer to help him find favourite books / toys and leave him to it. I don't usually shut him in (have done so on two occasions when he was repeatedly trying to hit his baby sister whilst I fed her, but I stayed close to the gate and let him out as soon as the baby was fed). I don't think bedrooms are great as punishment, they should be a safe place really.

We've found a glitter bottle really helpful, too. Really seems to get his focus back.

You have my sympathy OP, it's such a tough age!

Any punishment is damaging?

I would say I was pretty strict with mine at 3. I used time out and the naughty step. Manners non negotiable.They are now 7 and 9 and I very rarely have to pull them up for anything. They are brilliant and we have a lovely relationship. I laid down the boundaries firmly when they were little (along with lots of love of course) and so I'm not battling with behaviour at an age where they'll remember and hate me for it.

Call me smug if you like but I've worked hard at this. I think it's appalling that some of you are telling an OP at her wits end that laying down boundaries and being firm would be cruel.

Ds2 was a three year old horror. He slapped me round the face after I told him I loved him. We've worked a lot on how to deal with his anger appropriately. Get the book Raising a Spirited Child. He's 9 now and great.

What is he like at playgroup/nursery?

I'm afraid I have no real advice but can empathise. DS turns 4 tomorrow and he can be a little horror. He, too, is strong-willed, defiant and leaves me absolutely shattered. I totally get what you say about dreading whole days with him.

One thing we occasionally find useful, is to suggest he takes time out. Rather than sending him to his room, if he is on the rise and we think quick enough, we ask if he'd like to take some time out to calm down. We offer suggestions about where he would like to go and let him know that he can come back when he is calmer/ happy to do whatever it is that needs doing. Sometimes this really helps (if we are not in a time-pressured situation) and he comes backs a few minutes later (of his own accord) in a better mood.

We have also found putting very firm routines bad boundaries in around tasks that repeatedly get met with resistance. For example, DS is always difficult around getting dressed and it had got to a point where we'd always both end up shouting. Now, I take home to his room after breakfast and give him his clothes. I tell him that he can play with whatever he wants etc, but that I expect him to be dressed by the time I get out of the shower. I then go and shower but start giving him warnings about how far along I am. I have found that giving him this control and avoiding being present for him to argue, has made it all much better. He then gets some instant reward if he has got dressed (as far as he can), such as going downstairs and choosing an activity, or getting to put a favourite snack out for snack time.

Just some ideas, but I think it can be experimentation. We have far from cracked it, I'm afraid.

I like aha parenting and raising your spirited child too. Playful parenting is another really practical easy to use book, and the explosive child.

My kids 20 melt downs a day at 3 was/is caused by adhd/asd so not a silly suggestion, but not necessarily the case either.

We went for the 'time in' or 'quiet time' type method that Laura mark am recommends- but we were doing that before I read her stuff! It's just taking them first quiet time with you there to help them calm down. If it was unsafe for us to do this (and mine lash out at me and each other violently, or at least they did) I would step out side for a minute of so, or busy myself with washing out of their line of sight but still in the room. And taking a minute or two to get yourself together is fine to if you need- there's a difference between the punitive and protective- safety comes first.

The out of sync child and the out of sync child have fun are good resources too. For kids with spd but useful for alot of other kids too.

Ahh the not so lovely threes!

There is only one word really that will help you through this very demanding age and that is Consistency.

Routines, rules (not too many or too complex) and clear boundaries every single time will have a positive effect on the behaviour of the majority of children.

in my experience (almost 40yrs working with children) the best way to deal with constant confrontations is to ignore and walk away. Keep your voice low and simply say when you are ready we can do (whatever) then walk away and do something else. If he follows you hitting or kicking tell him we do not hit and walk away again. I know it's easier said than done when you are at the end of a very long day but if you can manage not to get into an argument with him and take deep breaths to keep calm it will help you both. Remember that he isn't doing it to you, or on purpose, he is simply being 3. Praise him breifly (don't be gushing) say ahh I'm glad you are feeling calmer, now shall we do (whatever), or explain calmly why he can't have what he wanted and move on to something else.

If you behave in the same way each time he will get the message that bad behaviour won't change the outcome of what was happening in the first place.

I hope your home is calmer soon but also remember he will change again and each phase is a challenge in its own way.

Equimum explained what I do with "quiet time" far better than I did! Just ignore my ramblings...

Should have said clearer- playful parenting is particularly useful with the oppositional behaviours.

Time out is for me, as well as my boy. It gives me a chance to collect myself when I feel I'm really going to lose my shit. It means he has time without the attention positive or negative to collect himself and then we have a little talk about why he's there, what we will do now (is there some kind of sanction for his behaviour) and we finish up with a cuddle. If he carries on kicking off he'll be there longer and the sanction may be extended.

I also try and get him out and running about every day. Park is preferable as it's free and outdoors but soft play is a good alternative (and if you only have one or the other one is a baby you can sit with a brew and your kindle :) )

It's not a magic solution but it helps and sometimes I need that breather just to think. Our time out is on the bottom stair behind the door to the living room. I don't call it the naughty step, just the step, but he knows that if he'sbeen sent to it he's done wrong. It also means we can talk about it behind the door without humiliating him because everyone can see him/hear the discussion.

I dunno OP, it's a hard age and what works for me might not for you. And other folk might think I'm horrible for what I do. I just have to do what I think is right and what I think works.

OP for what it's worth, DS is awful when he gets overwhelmed. A time out does not work for him. At all. He gets distressed by it. If I ask him calmly to sit and think and take a moment for myself that works better. Mostly it sounds like we do the same thing. Our very best to show love to a child struggling and overwhelmed by the world around them.

I pick him up cuddle him and tell him I need him to calm down.
I take him to a quiet private corner and ask him to do 5 big breaths with me.
When he doesn't listen and squirms I repeat it until he does the 5 big breaths.

It's like a reset for him. We can then talk about why he is upset, if I can do anything for him drink/snack/toilet/book. Then usually he can walk back to whatever he is doing and he is my usual happy boy.

Or game on my phone if I need to remove and distract him from something and there is no other choice because he can no longer calm down.

But DH and I have been talking about this for a long time, we are looking into what we need to do for him with regard to a possible ADHD diagnosis.
Because it runs in my family (and if it isn't ADHD then.... well... we'll go from there) and it would devastate me to watch history repeat itself.

Feeling your pain I have had the day from hell with my nearly 4 year old. She's usually at nursery on Thursdays and I think she knows it (closed for a weeks holiday over Xmas) this Christmas break has been great but full on and today she has been a little sod. Doesn't help that I'm full of cold and newly pregnant so feeling rough and her Daddy is dying from Manflu !! So it's been a tough one. Let's hope my little star returns tomorrow !!

Nobody warned me 3 was worse than 2! I have a mardy threenager and an 18 month old who just wants to play with his things.

I feel your pain OP

lauryloo I've always maintained that whoever coined the phrase terrible two's hadn't yet had the pleasure of a 3 year old

Can I join you in threenager hell, OP?
DS isn't quite 3 yet but has, in the last month or so, become ridiculously defiant. It's driving me mental as he used to be so compliant. It's like he's just discovered that he doesnt have to do anything I say.
Worst times are getting ready, meals and walking. Everything takes so long now as its punctuated by hideous whining or tears. I've never met a child who hates walking as much as mine.
I'm just keeping super consistent. I used time out if needed and DS responded well to it (asking to say sorry almost instantly as he hated being separated from us all). Now, he'll just run away from me if I tell him he had to have it but I collect him from wherever he's hiding and make him stand for a little while. If he moves, he goes back and it starts again. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. I'm also getting really good at telling him what's expected and giving him to the count of 5 to do it.
The other thing that has worked is giving advance notice, letting him know exactly what is coming up in his day/for lunch etc. He's not one for surprises and I found that telling him what he'd be doing sort of prepared him for it. Less room for tantrum if you already know what to expect.
He has such wonderful moments/days but the difficult ones really knock you.

Your son sounds like my son right now! (Also 3) must be the age! I do think consistency is key. I can be a little inconsistent if I am tired which is all time with 3kids! If I keep to the punishments (he especially hates missing out on things) and
Reduce TV time
This seems to
Help!? Let us know if you find the answer 😔

Bribery.
Chocolate
Park
Soft play
Present

My child is the same. Have faith OP

I also agree with hoppity about letting them know what they will be doing. For example blahblah we are going to change your nappy when I get to 10. And then count aloud.. Apparently toddlers have no understanding of time but understand counting to 10.

Oh I also get my child when she's having a meltdown to blow out my fingers. It makes them take a deep breath and calms them down. I then ask her to look at my eyes and do my explaining and ask her to use her words to tell me the problem.
But mainly, bribery

Meh they're all like Attila the Hun at that age. They usually grow out of it... well unless you treat them like a special snowflake, it extends a few years then. Applauding parents usually find that one out.

Boundaries, firm, consistent, don't be afraid to stick them somewhere they don't have an audience for a few minutes so you can collect yourself and walk the back legs off them twice a day.

There's a mint few years coming up before puberty hits, hang in there.

I had a horrible threenager. Once she turned 4 the really bad behaviour just seemed to disappear. We have some bad days but they're minimal compared to her terrible 2s and threenager years.

I found picking my battles worked. I had to decide whether something could be done her way or had to be done my way. There were times that compromises could be had and we could work together to get something done. Not everything could but it was a case of picking battles.

We also went through speech therapy with her as found that was why she was struggling. She would have a meltdown because she was so frustrated that she couldn't tell us why something had to be done a certain way or what she wanted or needed. Communication is vital and we were getting frustrated at not being able to understand. The speech therapy helped all of us communicated better on her level. Now she doesn't shut up though

Time outs are part of punishment though. When done right they are good. We had a time out spot and did the whole supernanny thing (set time, keep putting them back on the spot if moved). After time out, she would do as instructed (like eating her dinner!) We did praising the good behaviour and sticker charts. The praising still works but we've ditched the sticker charts now. They were as effective as praising for our DD.

Now just waiting to see what DD2 will be like. She's already picking some tantrum behaviour off her sister!

Well I am in exactly the same boat and so I sympathize! Sometimes I glad when we go out that we have an older child who behaves well so at least there's evidence we have brought at least one child up properly. I find it all so embarrassing.

Laura Markham's book is good - I haven't actually enacted a lot of it but DH and I like the 'granting wishes in fantasy' thing. It helps me to keep remembering that DD simply can't manage frustration when tired - her brain needs to grow up. Also, do whatever it takes for you to feel calm. DH and I nearly got divorced over this stage - it's hard!