To think that a career in law is incompatible with family life?

[musingsofawannabemumpreneur]

Back story...

I'm in my late 20s, and have a 9 year old son. Currently 3 years out of 4 through a part time law degree. The deadline for applying for training contracts when I'd need one is fast approaching.

The more I look into it, the more I can't fathom how both undertaking a training contract and a subsequent career in law will be possible with family life. From what I can gather, it's all very long hours, with chances of flexible working only available to established lawyers already working for firms, late nights par for the course, and chances of promotion extremely slim for part time workers. AIBU?

I don't want to head further down this path to realise it's not compatible with having a family at all, but also don't want my degree to be wasted.

Another piece of information which might be pertinent is that I have recently had ovarian reserve tests done, which show that I have a very, very diminished ovarian reserve for my age, and so if I want more babies (which I think I do!), then I'll definitely need to start thinking about that sooner rather than later.

I'm feeling totally overwhelmed and bereft about this today. Currently sat in a shopping centre car park trying not to cry as just feel so lost with my options. Very unsure about what I want to actually do with my life!

Would anyone in the legal field be able to offer their honest advice or opinions please?

I'm public sector law. Don't kid yourself that it's necessarily easier there. The hours can be long enough to disrupt family life even if they are not as mad as in the magic circle. When you're in court the next day you stay till the job is done, and if you have a conference with counsel who has been in court all day it won't even start till 5.00 or even 5.30 and will go on . . . as long as it needs to.

The money is poor. Very, very poor.

The only real advantage is the pension (although for today's joiners that is not as good as it was for old farts like me) and that when you do go home you are not worrying about the office overdraft - that is the problem of the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

And finally the competition for training contracts is brutal and you have to be very good indeed to get one.

I did Criminal Defence work for many years but needed a live in nanny, cleaner and someone to exercise my horse - I never had a spare moment. I did love my job though and now I have a 9-5 job in another sector miss the excitement of my old work. I couldn't go back, the legal aid rates are so low and legal aid so rationed I couldn't live on what I could earn. Some sorts of speciality are far more family friendly I spent a little time doing contentious probate and that is the sort of thing you can take home with you.

Sorry if I'm repeating anything pps have said but in a rush.... have a look at the government legal service and consider other in- house public sector options.

There are some really interesting places to work that don't involve ridiculous hours as long as you don't expect a mega salary in return. I'm 6 years pq (I'm a barrister) and earn 45k ish pro rata. I work 3 days a week. Office hours. One of the three days from home. The work I do is really challenging and I feel like I'm contributing to something important and in the public interest. I have two dc under 6.

I did a government legal service pupillage but that was much more full on and I didn't have children then.

Sorry pressed post too soon. I had my first child the year after I completed pupillage.

It isnt the rewarding career most people think it is.

www.marieclaire.co.uk/life/work/things-you-only-know-if-you-re-a-lawyer-15330

Numbers 1, 2 & 6 are quite possibly the worst.

I was 2 years into my 3 year full time degree when I realised I didn't want to do the city training contract thing (and couldn't afford to qualify any other way). I finished my degree and ended up using it to work in legal risk and then legal IT (despite not being particularly technical).

It's worked well for me, with a family. If you can afford to, I would certainly finish the degree (a degree being a degree, and all that, regardless of whether you end up working in the same field).

YANBU.

I'm too burnt out and battle weary (city firm, satanic partner) to type anymore.

Don't do it

I cannot resist mentioning that I am acting in litigation for one of five parties. This afternoon I emailed the other solicitors with some suggestions about how to proceed and got four out-of-offices, two to 3 January and two to 5 January. It's obviously the public sector which is keeping things going

Government lawyer here, twelve years Pqe earning 62k ish. There were pregnant trainees when I trained. Maternity pay is great. I have two children under four and work 90pc in four days. One day at home. Everyone works at home except trainees as the view is that they need to have supervision at all times. The more senior the more freedom and flexibility. I got promoted on my first maternity leave. It is extremely competitive but trainees come from more diverse backgrounds than in private practice. It is absolutely worth an application!

Andre I'm getting plenty of those emails from private sector lawyers too at the moment, it's just the out of office is followed by an actually response within about 30 mins anyway!

Public sector lawyer: I work 4 days; 3 I do school hours only in the office (9.30-2.15) and make up the extra hours in the evening when kids are in bed. I chose how I wanted to work and it's great.

I am noticing a few more private sector lawyers who work part time / or from home one day a week. It still seems quite rare though. What I have noticed is that the calibre of public sector lawyers has increased immensely as more and more people are drawn to the family friendly culture. We are also keeping all our work in house now, as it is easy to recruit high quality lawyers who want to have a genuine work -life balance. Law firms are really missing a trick here.

Law firms are stuck in the dark ages when it comes to flexible working and part time hours. I am about to return from my first maternity leave full time, because I don't see the point in getting part time pay for a full time workload and still picking up "urgent" emails on my day off - one of the partners I work for in particular deems virtually everything to be urgent!

I am 5PQE in a large regional firm in the south. I doubt I'd be going back if I worked in a city firm. My hours can be long especially when something big is on but then there are lulls as well. I just about have the seniority now to work mostly independently so I can say bye at 5.30 and pick up my DS from nursery but log back on later to finish anything that truly is urgent. At trainee or more junior solicitor level you just won't have that autonomy and will need a lot more supervision. I wouldn't discount law completely, you just need to be very careful about the sort of firm you choose and you won't be earning mega bucks. I earn good money compared to my local friends in other jobs but peanuts compared to the big guys in the City.

As some pps suggested; have a look in the public sector. I work for a local authority and it is much more family friendly than the equivalent private sector role, although the salaries are much more modest.

Very similar to Me624, I'm just about to return to work as a solicitor after maternity leave. I'm going back full time because of a combination of complete lack of flexibility and because I'd end up working full time for part time pat. I'm 2PQE in the North West and work in property. Even in the Brexit uncertainly, work is manic and my colleagues are working late almost every night and often working weekends (as I was pregnant) and the pay just isn't worth it (£26k). I'm planning on going back full time short term only until I sell my own house and then find an alternative. The stress/pay is just not worth it.

If I knew what I know now, I would never have pursued a career in law and virtually all of my female friends who intend a family (and lots of the men) feel the same and plan on leaving law.

DH got a training contract at a country law firm doing conveyancing and the hours were strictly 9-5. He hated the job though and left 2 years after completing his training to become an artist!

My friend went into HR after her law degree, another trained to be a solicitor but her husband stepped down to look after the DCs when they had them.
I'd get your degree and then see what interests you - HR, compliance, QA. The company I work for have a legal team in house, not very big, some people still in training.
Good luck

It definitely is possible but it's hard work in an already saturated profession.

My DM did a law degree and training contract with 4 children under 10. It did involves us moving to the other end of the country. I'm now head of an inhouse legal department with 1 DS.

If I were you, and as you already have a child, I would probably think about having your family first and then focusing on your career after if that's is what you ultimately want to do. I Know lots of successful women in law who have families and it doesn't get in the way as long as you don't let it.

A friend with a law degree got a job on the hmrc graduate training scheme. That was quite stressful though, if you failed the same exam twice you were kicked out. Another friend is a partner in the city and he said there is more flexibility as your career progresses. He now works from home a few days a week. But when he was a trainee / junior solicitor he was regularly doing all nighters.

I worked for a big nationwide firm of solicitors for a year and the hours some of the staff had to put in were excruciating . Especially some of the juniors.

I was talking to a senior partner in a law firm a few weeks ago and was saying where we'd been holiday this year and could just see the envy in his eyes when I mentioned we had 3 and a half weeks abroad. I couldn't do that he said.

Although the money might be good it seems a lot of them want your soul too.

Agree with much of what is said above. Am 9 years PQE at Associate level and about to return from third mat leave to FT work. No point working part time as it will be the same work load for reduced pay.

Although am at a large regional firm the hours and workload are long and stressful and while I do leave before 5pm every day, I work most evenings and most weekends and can't remember the last holiday that wasn't interrupted. I've also been contacted weekly while on mat leave. I'm not even a partner and certainly not earning enough for that to be acceptable. My colleagues who are pushing for partnership are either childless or male. Of my trainee intake, all the men are now partners and all the women are not.

I will make it work because I have to and because I specialised in something that I can only really do in private practice and the region I live in has extremely limited alternative options at this salary bracket. But I wouldn't advise anyone else to consider a legal career.

And don't be a paralegal. We pay ours not very much and they work very hard if they want a training contract and for those that don't, there are very limited progression and pay increase options.

A friend of my son is trying to go through the paralegal route with a view to getting a training contract, they took on 6 and will offer one TC. From what she has said it is worse than being in The Apprentice.

Regulation is a good area to go into with a laq degree, most of our case managers have a law degree. Are their any regulatory bodies near you?

First thing to remember is not all paths are equal: There are many different ways "to be a lawyer", some offer more flexibility; some more financial compensation, some personal reward, but whichever path you take you will need to be committed.

I've walked several paths over the past 16 years and had 4 DC. Whilst it hasn't always been easy it's definitely doable. But not worth it unless you really want it.

I really enjoy my job, the financial rewards are immense and I'm now at a stage where work life balance is (relatively!) good.

I'm inhouse (lawyer and co-sec) and it's fine. Very flexible. Will work in the evenings and weekends, but also get to work from home and do flexible hours if I want to. Many women in my team work part time or different hours to fit in with their families (luckily I'm their boss and I'm understanding!).

It still isn't 9-5 but it's doable and interesting. Have also done my stint in city law firms - some of this time with children. I just couldn't see myself living the life of the female partners and my children being those children. Still they earned loads so there were some benefits!

I think there would be a few years of working really long hours if you do it now. But you'd be able to get a better/more family friendly job then and it is worth it I think. Not easy. (and only worth it because the pay is pretty good).

whisperingloudly what do you do now?