To think that a career in law is incompatible with family life?

[musingsofawannabemumpreneur]

Back story...

I'm in my late 20s, and have a 9 year old son. Currently 3 years out of 4 through a part time law degree. The deadline for applying for training contracts when I'd need one is fast approaching.

The more I look into it, the more I can't fathom how both undertaking a training contract and a subsequent career in law will be possible with family life. From what I can gather, it's all very long hours, with chances of flexible working only available to established lawyers already working for firms, late nights par for the course, and chances of promotion extremely slim for part time workers. AIBU?

I don't want to head further down this path to realise it's not compatible with having a family at all, but also don't want my degree to be wasted.

Another piece of information which might be pertinent is that I have recently had ovarian reserve tests done, which show that I have a very, very diminished ovarian reserve for my age, and so if I want more babies (which I think I do!), then I'll definitely need to start thinking about that sooner rather than later.

I'm feeling totally overwhelmed and bereft about this today. Currently sat in a shopping centre car park trying not to cry as just feel so lost with my options. Very unsure about what I want to actually do with my life!

Would anyone in the legal field be able to offer their honest advice or opinions please?

Family life and city lawyering are incompatible (in my experience) unless you're happy to have a live in nanny and/or you swap traditional roles with your husband. I did city law until I had two children and then moved regional and took a part time job with relatively fixed hours and it works really well. I'm not sure if part time training contracts exist but there are regional firms out there which actually "shut" at 6pm so surely one of those types of firms is the way forward if you were happy to do a 5 day week to start off with?

Training contracts are not easy to come by. My daughter is in her second year of a law degree, she's a straight a/a star student and at one of the top law schools, she's applying to magic circle and silver circle, which I think is a concerning, as she should apply to high street too and she's applying for summer internships, which are basically a two week interview for a training contract.

The hoops she has to jump through are astonishing , from the application itself, through to the online tests they require, there is then many interviews and assessment centres to then get through, just for an internship.

She goes to many networking events held by law firms at the uni and the message she clearly gets is that long hours are common, and we are talking two in the morning level of common.

There is other ways to do it,you could work as a paralegal to help pay for your training, then you have a better chance of a job as a solicitor at that firm, and also now you can get a student loan to pay for the LLC which you couldn't before, so you could do your masters first then move do the solicitor training.

So I think the question is not just do you want to do the hours, it's can you get a training contract, I think on average about a third of grads get them, and remember that third includes people from previous years who didn't get one originally and are still applying.

No doubt it's a very tough and competitive field.

Ex-City lawyer here & the simple answer is yes, at least if you are looking at the City firms. I know people who have made it work but, in the main, they have had a SAHP, very involved grandparents, a live in nanny or children at boarding school. Having said that, few of my friends survived in the City to have children as old as your DS. He will be going to bed later so, even if you left at 7pm (which should be achievable a couple of times a week most weeks) you'd still see him for a couple of hours some evenings if you could cut down the commute. Of course, if you then needed to log on and do an hour or so from home once he was in bed, you would be working until late.

My brother is a solicitor. He does litigation for a specialist firm. He started out doing general stuff - RTAs etc, but is now highly specialised with around 10yrs PQE.

His hours have always been pretty standard office hours. He sometimes goes in at the weekend to catch up (maybe once/ 6 months) but rarely stays late as he has many after work commitments. My understanding is that he earns a little bit more than most of his contemporaries in his non London city. Cynically this is done deliberately to retain staff - very difficult to move elsewhere unless for a promotion as you have to accept less money. However he still doesn't earn nearly as much as me (hospital doc) or his partner (GP). But his work-life balance is a lot better....

His firm contrary perhaps to expectations of "ambulance chasers" have been really good to him over the last few years as we coped with lots and lots of family shit (bereavement, oldies failing to cope etc). He has had some paid carers type leave and some unpaid to allow him to sort stuff out. I'm NHS and have also been treated well - I got enforced carers leave when my boss worked out why I'd applied for annual leave (I was looking after my Mum while my Dad, her usual carer, had elective surgery) and they were very generous when she finally died. My sister works for NGOs and hasn't been treated nearly so well - even getting time to go to funerals was tricky for her, let alone time to clear houses etc.

I would suggest for you looking into being a paralegal or working in the business development department. These are more flexible, less hours but still well paid and will give you a brilliant understanding of what a firm is like... you will also have a better chance of getting a training contract once you've made connections in a firm.
Good luck!

it's not compatible with having a family at all

OP,

I read between the lines that you really don't want to do this.

You are not being unreasonable; no one will hold it against you.

You can always come back to the law at a later date.

I'm a SAHP, while my husband is the lawyer. Law has been the third wheel in our marriage in more than one occasion. Luckily my personality type is such that we've adapted, even during cancelled vacations, or family celebrations marred by a slew of conference calls. The payoffs are vast at the top of the legal game, but it isn't for everyone.

I know quite a number of lawyers who work in-house, and it's a much saner way of life with family-friendly hours.

I know lawyers (men and women) with very happy family lives. If you want to be a lawyer then go for it. If you don't, then do something else. Being a lawyer has nothing to do with whether or not you have a happy family life.

DH is a barrister. It's completely incompatible with family life. But I knew this and knew I was committing to cover that role myself. He's an amazing person and the small time he spends with the kids is quality. I wouldn't want any other father for my kids. But oh how I often wish we could have more time. And that he wasn't wasting his life for other people who often don't care.

Hiya

Look at compliance or anti money laundering in the city

Can start in Kyc field - £250 a day usually and work your way up. Banks absolutely love law degrees esp in my
Experience if u study corporate elements eg banking and finance law

I work 9-5 as a contractor in banking at family friendly banks only that allow working from home eg lloyds standard chartered HSBC (avoid American banks like the plague!)

I'm early 30s 3 kids and earn £110k or £500 p day.

Tough thing is organising childcare when going back & get £130 p wk mat allowance only

Contracts are usually Feb - summer. No hiring summer and Xmas.

Means can also take time out I've been off now a month as got interviews mid Jan

It is a bit stressful but omg the thought of 830-8pm with a young family makes me feel sick!! Also the health / stress implications of being desk bound for 12h a day and missing your kids

Look on e financial careers

Good luck

You could look into a training contract in a local authority? We have flexible hours, interesting work. The only downside is the pay, but at trainee level it's actually quite competitive.
PM me if you like

Not a lawyer but have several friends who are.

Training contracts in the City are hell, and it's rare for trainees to have children (though I do know one person who did - her DH was the one who got home to pick up from childcare, as she never reliably could, especially when she was doing her litigation seat). You don't mention a partner, but if you do have one, don't think of this as solely your problem.

The City really isn't the only option. Have you looked at public sector? The Government Legal Department do training contracts, though it's very competitive, and of course less well-paid than the City. And there's a lot to be said for the public sector: I've worked in it for a fair chunk of my career, and the work is really interesting and varied.

Once you're qualified there are plenty of less mainstream and fairly family-friendly possibilities, though you have to look for them - in-house for a charity is a good option, for instance.

Im not a city lawyer and even then frequently dont leave the office until 7pm and you're not a huge earner unless you're in the city.

I dont know anyone who works their core hours and leaves on time.

Also how are you going to pay for the LPC? It tends be only city firms that fund it. Do you have the £12,000+ for the fees?

Hi OP,

Haven't read all the replies so apologies if I repeat anyone. But my experience would be no - I feel pregnant towards the end of my training contact (city firm, I was early 30s) and it was very clear to me that I couldn't go back. As others have said, it's the lack of flexibility that is the issue and if you're junior/NQ you need a level of support that goes with a big firm who expect that. So I left - but now have a great flexible job in schools governance (part time term time only) which uses my skills and some of my knowledge whilst allowing me to be largely present for my family.

Not sure what area of law you're interested in, but if company/corporate, have you looked at Co Sec work? A law degree would be a great asset, it's interesting work and you'd be much more business focussed than being a lawyer. Lots of PT/interim opps available too. Try the ICSA website if of interest.

Good luck to you.

I fell pregnant.

Felt pregnant too!

Also it has be said the city are snobs in other ways too. They get upwards of 1000 applications. They filter out the firsts and the straight As at a-level because they can. My firm does this and they aren't even a city firm.

With a part time degree (Im not sure you've said from where) and a non standard route and if your alevel results arent straight A, you might find the city closed off anyway. I am sorry to say they cherry pick the best of the best of the best. I never would have got an interview at a city firm myself.

I know lots of lawyers. I know lots of ex lawyers too who have gone on to a variety of other things.
I would advise against doing the LPC or whatever it is called now unless you have a training contract which you may struggle to get if you want to do the training contract part time. Competition is very fierce. If you want to be a paralegal you can do that withouth the lpc.
My dh is a lawyer he has chosen not to b come a partner due to family as he would hardly see us if he was. That is unusual though decision as all his peers are parteners.

IME it's not true that private practice, even in the City, is incompatible with family life. I am an equity partner in the City, have two DC 7 and 3, and work 80%. I was promoted after having DC1 and when already working PT. I share drop offs etc with DH and am home for bath time etc 3 days in the week. Two days I stay as long as I need to, and there is some remote logging on from home too although not all the time. About a third of lawyers at my firm are PT.

This does all depend very much on the firm and your area of work, but I know people (men and women) who manage some sort of balance in eg. Employment and tax. Some of the big firms are opening up to at least limited remote working etc as a way to manage their property costs (means they need less office space!).

It us hugely helpful to have established your worth though in order to get these flexibilities and to make them work effectively. That is tough to do as a trainee when you are brand new and moving department frequently.

Thanks so much for all replies - was only expecting one or two so there's some really great ideas and info here which I'll definitely look into.

@lostinmess, I spent 8 years doing Co Sec work, and that was the reason I originally started the degree, to further my co sec career... I left in my most recent role May because I hated it and thought I wanted out of co sec. In hindsight I was earning more than double most trainee solicitor salaries, and I now wonder whether I should give it another shot in the hope that it was the company rather than the work which was bringing me down!

Lots of food for though and seems city will not be workable.

To answer the question about support, I have no family nearby although I do have a DP. He isn't my son's father, if that's at all relevant (!) and works long hours in London himself so unfortunately of limited help in terms of childcare pick ups and drop offs.

I recommend public sector. I have a young ds and work 3 days a week and pretty much 9-5. I also was able to take 12 months maternity leave as the first 6 months was on full salary The salary is not huge and we haven't had a proper pay rise in 5 years but it is reasonable. Look around and see what is out there. Training contracts are hard to find but it can be done.

I would caution against the notion that in house is easier. I am head of legal in house and it is, bluntly, destroying my life right now. That's more to do with local factors but all my in house jobs have been demanding and stressful, although without the billable hours pressure of PP. I do like being part of a business though and now I'm the boss can determine my work patterns to an extent I think I probably couldn't do in a law firm.
Swings and roundabouts innit. If you are near London definitely look at government legal service. Fascinating work and they will have to recruit loads of lawyers to clear up the brexit splatter. I'd do it myself but couldn't cope with the salary hit.

There are massive cuts to public sector legal depts currently many are in redundancy phase rather than hiring.

Generally yes, but what I'm hearing is central government is recruiting in anticipation of the volume of brexit related work which is going to be immense, let's face it. Only reason I'm not going for it is money. The work you get in central government is brilliant and it attracts really top quality lawyers who for whatever reason are sick of the bar or the city, so you have a good peer group.

The problem with moving in-house for the hours karlos is that there's no easy way of asking at interview what the hours are really like without seeming uncommitted. I know plenty of in-house teams who are still answering emails in the middle of the night but at the same time I know plenty who clock off entirely at 5 or whatever. Difference isn't always reflected in pay either!

Unless you're fixed on starting a training contract at a certain date for a certain firm, I wouldn't worry about any "deadlines". I applied for a training contract after I'd competed my law degree and the professional finals as I wasn't sure if I wanted to qualify as a lawyer. Once I got my offer of a training contract I worked as a paralegal at another firm and took some time off to travel (this was all pre children).

Given what's happening on the personal front for you and your uncertainty about being a lawyer, how about looking at paralegal options in-house?

There are likely to be more part time options and hours won't be as demanding. Pay will be less than the qualified lawyers but pretty decent overall and usually the main requirement is some form of legal studies. If you decide later you want to qualify as a lawyer, some companies can organise that for you in-house.

Paralegals can go on to gain specialisms e.g. Corporate Secretarial and Corporate Governance work which can make them sought after and helps create a distinct career path.

When you say you worked in-house but not as a lawyer was that as a paralegal?

If that doesn't appeal, other areas which are worth looking at where the law degree will be helpful are in relation to compliance, data protection and HR.

There are specialist data protection courses if that's an area you want to explore and you don't have to be a qualified lawyer for some in house DP Manager/Officer roles.

DP probably doesn't sound very exciting but it's a growth area as companies have to ensure they comply with new regulations.

In terms of sector focus, life sciences (eg pharma companies) is a good one to get into.

I now work in recruitment, I fell into it unexpectedly when I was looking for a new job as I was moving countries. I'd worked for a London law firm for a few years and knew of someone who had moved into recruitment but hadn't thought about it as a career until the headhunter I went to see offered me a job. It's a very saturated market in the UK and service levels within the recruitment industry can be erratic which can give the profession a bad name, I enjoy what I do but wouldn't recommend it unless you're sales and service focused and comfortable with business development.

Main thing is don't feel pressured to do something by an artificial deadline, not applying for a training contract now doesn't mean you lose the option to work as a lawyer or in the legal field in the future.

From a practical perspective, whatever you decide to do, if you can gain some practical work experience in your preferred sector before you expand your family, it's easier to resume your career after an extended maternity gap, even if the experience pre break was relatively brief.

Also possible the other way, it just takes more grit and determination!