to not know how to help my sister?

[PumpkinPie2016]

I have a sister who is in her mid twenties. She has two young children - one in school and one entitled to the 15 hours free nursery. She has a partner as well.

My sister doesn't work and hasn't since she had her eldest child - prior to this she worked in a shop so childcare would have been far more than she earned and so it wouldn't have been possible for her to go back.

Her partner is a nice enough guy but unfortunately, he doesn't seem very motivated. He does a bit of ad hoc work for a friend but this isn't regular or reliable. A few people including our dad and a another relative have tried to help him find something more reliable by putting in a good word etc. But he never turns up for interviews

So, this brings me to the issue I am concerned about. They are always, and I mean always, desperately short of money for even the basics - food, nappies, gas/electric (they have card meters). As a result my sister is constantly asking various friends and relatives, myself included, for money to cover these things. The money is never returned to whoever it has come from.

I love my sister to bits and over the last few years I have helped as much as possible as have many other relatives and friends. The problem is that it is getting draining I can't contact her without her asking for money and it is the same for other people who are also getting frustrated. People also help in others ways e.g. buying a good shop, buying coats for the children etc.

They get benefits and part of me thinks that as adults they need to organise the budget better but I don't know whether it is genuinely that she can't budget or just doesn't think beyond a few days

They don't have a car and have a council house so can't cut that back any further.

I have my own bills to cover and have to budget accordingly so can't always help.

I don't want to upset her but I think she needs to seek help with budgeting if such a thing exsists?

Does anyone have any suggestions of things I could suggest to help her? Do sure start centres offer help with these things?

If you've read this far thank you!

This is going to sound really, really harsh but you all need to stop helping them out.

There is no incentive for them to take control and improve their situation if they know that people are always going to be buying items for them, or, giving them cash. There's no need for him or her to find a job because at the moment you're all funding their lifestyle whilst they do nothing.

Why work when you can get it all for free?

Are the substance misuse or alcohol issues? Are there mental health issues at play? Are they in debt?

Banks are good at giving budgeting advice and can also set them up with savers accounts. Foodbanks also give advice on debt and budgeting.

Also the argument about childcare costs is invalid.

One could work full time whilst the other provides childcare.

One could work full time and one could work part time and they could both provide childcare by ensuring they were not overlapping with shifts or using 15 hours of free nursery entitlement.

There are heaps of ways around this including picking up ad hoc jobs on task rabbit or babysitting in the evenings.

Hello OP, as others have suggested, I'd stop giving them money. Because it won't help them to prioritise how they spend the money they do have coming in.

I would point them in the direction of the local CAB office. Even go as far as offering to accompany your sister. Maybe they have debt, from less than desirable lenders? (Loan sharks, high interest loans etc..)

Was there ever any idea that she'd go to university? Could she do that or FE college for a vocational qualification now and invest 2-3 years in permanently increasing her earning ability?

One of them needs to get any stable job that meets the working tax credit hours criteria - 24 hours a week I think if only one of them is working.

It sounds like your sister would be the better bet - can she go back to retail, or what about care work or cleaning if she doesn't have any particular experience or qualifications for office work etc. Her partner can then be a SAHD and run the household.

Wages plus HB, CTB, WTC, CB and CTC should mean that they can cover the basics at least. If they have debt or are spending on non essentials they may benefit from budgeting advice too.

It's hard and boring to do things the right way instead of lazing around going woe is me, but that's the reality of being a grown up unfortunately.

Thank you again for the replies and all of the links/suggestions of organisations which can help.

In terms of where the money goes - I'm honestly not sure - no substance misuse/MH problems. Maybe a loan of some sort that we don't know about but if the repayments are too high then hopefully CAB should be able to help?

I am seeing her tomorrow and I am just going to be frank with her and tell her that I will support her to seek help from the organisations mentioned but that I (and others) can't keep funding them and people are getting fed up of it.

She could, as mentioned, work while her partner does more of the child care so I will also suggest she does this.

In all honesty, as much as I love her, she has always been quite difficult as a teenager and this continued into adulthood but it's time they grew up and faced their responsibilities.

You cant go to University if you are on benefits.
Tell your sister straight, she is driving people away and losing sympathy by constantly asking for money.
They need to start serious job hunting.

It's probably the stop start nature of his employment that is causing pericular difficulties. It either means that HB is constantly being suspended and recalculated and that tax credits are at risk of over and underpayments OR that they don't claim all available top ups to avoid the above hassle and income fluctuations.

It's a known problem that temporary work causes budget chaos for low income families.

Manumission no, there were no uni plans. She was fairly bright at school - maybe not an A grade student but she certainly could have got reasonable GCSE grades.

Unfortunately, she couldn't be arsed and so didn't do very well.

She could look at the local FE college though as they will have courses available.

You cant go to University if you are on benefits

Of course she can

Student finance would replace some of the benefits and they could keep earnings child benefit and tax credits on top. Still tight but investing in the future.

You can't help her, they have to help themselves. Every time you bail them out they learn that someone else will always rescue them so they don't have to bother watching their finances. As hard as it is to watch you need to let them feel the consequences of their poor money management, don't lend then anymore money! I have learnt this the hard way after 20 years of bailing my sister out. I've spent £1000s of pounds getting her out of scrapes and she never learns because she knows she can spend her money on what she likes then come to me with her hand out because I don't want the kids to suffer.

If he's doing bit work for a mate I doubt he's declaring it.

She could look at the local FE college though as they will have courses available.

A BTEC leading to a skilled trade would be a great idea and permanently move her up a wage grade or two. More if she fancies something lucrative like plumbing!

are you good at budgeting and planning where your money goes etc? if you are it might be worth sitting her down and going through all the incomings and outgoings, then help her set a budget for bills, food etc and see if there are any unnecessary expenses such as high phone bills, sky tv etc and help her find cheaper energy deals, also they would be better off switching to a monthly direct debit for their energy it would be cheaper and they won't have to worry about keeping the meter topped up, you are doing the right thing with helping out with the kids food and clothes.. her partner needs to get a job or maybe he should get a full time job!! I have been in her situation with 2 kids and neither me or my OH were working at the time though my dds were only a baby and 2 yr old, but my OH did finally find a job after much searching and trying.

He sounds like a waste of space. He doesn't work because he knows that everyone else will bail him out. I can understand why you want to help your sister though. It isn't fair that she and the children should go without because she is stuck with a lazy good for nothing.

This is so sexist - there is no reason why you couldn't just reverse the genders here and it be exactly the same issue.

Could they just be spending on things like takeaways, clothes and days out/household items that just isn't affordable on their income?

Do either them smoke, drink or gamble? Payday loans or other expensive credit like Brighthouse etc?

With 2 children and a council house, they should be entitled to enough benefits to pay their basic bills and if one of them can get a stable job with enough hours to also be entitled to WTC they might even have enough to afford a few small treats but only if they prioritise the basics and budget well - save up for things rather than use credit, cook cheap meals from scratch instead of takeaways etc that sort of thing.

Divert even a few tens of pounds a week to common non essentials like smoking, gambling, takeaways, lunches out, Brighthouse etc and things tend to go a bit pear shaped when the washing machine breaks unfortunately.

Presumably they're claiming income support and/or ESA? If it were JSA, he would keep getting sanctioned if he kept missing job interviews or wasn't applying for enough jobs.

Either way, they both sound bone idle but it's the kids that will suffer.

Do either them smoke, drink or gamble? Payday loans or other expensive credit like Brighthouse etc?

Expensive credit could easily explain it. Or simply buying household goods, if they started with minimal furnishings and have been struggling to make a home with no budget for that.

People use Brighthouse etc in desperation because they need a washing machine or a bed and have no money for one.

I wouldn't say you don't want to keep supplementing her income I would say you cannot keep supplementing her income as you don't have enough to do that and pay your own bills.

I suspect she probably wouldn't trust the father to look after the kids as a SAHD. I would feel uncomfortable doing that myself as whilst DP is a good dad in his own way he doesn't have the ability to parent the kids in the same way I do. He is pretty lazy, takes short cuts, lacks motivation, can't see risk until the kids get hurt etc. He basically needs me to back him up or else all hell breaks lose 🙄

It definitely could be debt as I couldn't understand why my sister and her DP never had any money and yet worked every hour under the sun with free childcare. When I had a conversation with her about it she explained reluctantly it was because of debts accumulated by both of them before they got together (his as a result of his divorce). Suddenly it made sense and hopefully for them there is light at the end of the tunnel.

The best way to help her, is to stop helping her iyswim! It is the only way she and her partner will learn how to look after themselves.

I'd be trying to boost her self esteem and ambition a bit.

She probably feels quite trapped and hopeless, given her earning potential, his lackadaisical attitude and the cost of everything now.

I suspect she probably wouldn't trust the father to look after the kids as a SAHD. I would feel uncomfortable doing that myself as whilst DP is a good dad in his own way he doesn't have the ability to parent the kids in the same way I do.

Oh excellent point - maybe that's why he isn't working, he probably doesn't trust her to look after the kids.

I used to work with Sure Start and they're usually great at helping out with things like this OP.
Some of them even have a regular spot every week/2 weeks where someone from the local CAB comes in,they usually offer appointments and then if they have any time left at the end of the session they'll see people that drop in as well.

If your Sisters local SS don't offer the CAB appointments then your sister can ring her local CAB to make an appointment with them
If she looks on here she can find her local one
www.citizensadvice.org.uk/

Tell her it's best to make an appointment rather than just drop in as they can get very busy and to take some proof of who she is and where she lives,anything that might help them help her,things like letters that show her entitlement to which ever benefits her family are claiming,if she doesn't have any upto date benefit letters than she can take in a bank statement that show's what she gets and when and where it comes from,any debts she has ect.

Also having a look online and checking that she's getting everything she's entitled to is always worth a look
www.gov.uk/benefits-calculators

With neither of them working is there a reason that you know off?Either of them being ill/having a disability/caring for a child that's disabled/depression either for your Sister,her DP or both?

Have both of them been out of regular work for quite a while?If they have it could be a combination of feeling low/being depressed and a lack of confidence about going back to work.
We helped quite a few families with the same kinds of issues get back to work and for some it was they're first ever experience of working.

If that is the case then Sure Start can help with that as well,they run different courses usually and can offer help with English and Maths(before anyone mentions my English I have brain damage)computer skills,interview techniques,studying from home,college courses all sorts really.

I hope something there helps.

There's nothing wrong with your English holidays.

Are surestart centres still doing that wide range of services?

Great post from Ewe