to think that mainstream schools think SN kids are a drain?

[Planetarymagic1]

My understanding is that schools dont get aby additional funding for kids with Special Needs unless the needs are so exceptional that they can then apply for Exceptional Needs Funding, even if the child has an EHCP. Is that right?

(Before MN explodes, ive NC and have 2 SN kids at a Voluntary Aided mainstream primary, and am starting to feel like we are a bit of a drain and we should somehow be more grateful. Am i right about the funding? My kids are extra expensive?)

Planetary I'm going to dig around and try and find it written down somewhere. I definitely understand the need for you to see it somewhere in writing, it's just for me it's been gone over so many times that I barely know the sources anymore! They often talk about it in the context of "how much does your child have attached, is that including the first statutory part?" That type of thing. I wonder if it's different everywhere because as PP have said, apart from lack of teacher training, the staff managing the EHCPs can be painfully incompetent and don't seem to understand it enough to explain it back to parents. Each person you then speak to seems to have a different understanding of it all depending on where they are based

.

snatchedPencil have you actually ever met any children with additional/special needs?

The children with additional needs in my school are a diverse group that
*have a variety of conditions and needs
*support one another
*act as advocates for those of their group that cannot speak up for themselves
*work hard- some have to study so much harder than the able, bright children to get anywhere near an "acceptable" level of attainment (though some are those very able children!)
*are kind and empathic- they understand what it is like to be/feel marginalised
*always take the trouble to say "Good morning, Miss", even when they're not feeling 100% (which in some cases where children have chronic conditions is frequently)
*are ambassadors for our school
*overcome considerable setbacks and barriers to learning with dignity, pride, and even sometimes great panache
*make our school a nicer, more understanding place by challenging and changing attitudes

Am now lying in a depressingly tepid bath, pondering this. DC2 has a very "spiky" profile, and according to school is miles behind on every measurable. School dont really know what to implement and we were told, are unlikely to pursue a diagnosis of anything until about year 3. We are in the middle of year 1 so far, and i dont know what to do. Do i apply for an EHCP too? We only get DLA for the eldest, i dont think we would qualufy for DLA for the second. I feel like we are drifting with this one and school are more focussed on what they are already spending on DC1, who whilst complex, is completely different!

Is there a cost attached to the school pursuing a diagnosis for DC2?

The school.would have to allocate some of their funding for ed psych needs assessment- so concerns re dyslexia or similar(although not everywhere diagnoses these days) But school don't 'pursue' or 'fund' medical diagnosis, if that's what your talking about. So you can ask your gp to refer to pead for assessment or to start ehcp process from medical side of things. Pead can refer onto ot/salt/camhs/physio etc. Often worth doing both in many circumstances. As much evidence from as many professionals weighing in as possible can help.

Snatchedpencil talks a lot of sense, however unpalatable it may be, reality in most schools bears little resemblance to the rosy picture Haskell paints.

'The teachers have to treat children fairly, and it undermines their authority when they are seen to let Child X get away with behaviour that would not be tolerated from the rest of the children.'

If you are a shit teacher then this might be the case.

Schools have to show how they spend the £6000 "notional" funding and how they need top up funding on top to help the child.

It seems that LAs make it hard to apply... it's almost like they don't want to give the money.

Anyway, each LA then distributes the money differently. For example, Greenwich give the full amount from the get go. Other LAs will give perhaps £4000 and then the school has to apply again showing why they need more.
Each application takes hoursssss. Schools are immensely tight for time.

Can I ask you a question sisterV, ds 4 nearly 5 has dev delay, and speech and language delay, he is 1.5 years behind in terms of learning and with social. He has just started mainstream infant school and has high needs funding block funding, which means he gets a one to one help, the school feels that the gap is widening between him and his peers and wants to apply for an EHCP for him, when he starts yr1. They basically want a more permanent source of funding so that he can get the help he needs with learning. His behaviour is fine, and school have said that he is settling in will. He has made some friends and understands what expected of him. What is the possibility of him getting an EHCP, are they only giving them to those with significant needs.

So User....6330 - what is the unpalatable reality in schools, as you see it?

Hi Aero, sadly I really can't answer that as it depends on a) your area and b) how good your DS's school are at making the case well. Shouldn't depend on that, but it often does.

user1479296630

What do you suggest?

I think perhaps Haskell's description is a little one sided. Children with SN or disabilities are a very varied group, just like other children. They aren't all little angels. I remember one who would drive his motorised wheelchair into people who pissed him off. That doesn't mean that there aren't children as Haskell describes, but they aren't any more uniform than other groups of children.

As for "The teachers have to treat children fairly, and it undermines their authority when they are seen to let Child X get away with behaviour that would not be tolerated from the rest of the children." My DD has understood since nursery that some children have different needs, understand the world differently and may behave differently as a result. She also understands that this can mean that adults have to respond differently to those children. Being in an inclusive environment is normal to her and her idea of being treated fairly doesn't mean that she expects every child to be treated the same. If she was able to understand that at 3 or 4 then it isn't rocket science.

Planetarymagic1

If i were you I would push for a diagnosis outside of the school. As schools are very limited in what they can do and more to the point how they can do it.

Yes. It all boils down to time and money.

Can't be a drain if they don't give them any support 😡
I don't think any school has a welcoming attitude.

Quack I read haskell's post as the kids with sn in her school are able to bring those positive things to it because of the inclusive nature and how the teachers value them and support them, not that children with sn inherently have the traits.

I am amazed at Haskell's description of her school and children with SN. Act as support and ambassadors for each other? Always have a cheery greeting for the teacher even if they aren't feeling well?
Hahahahahahaha
Haskell - are you making this up????

Yes, I have vast experience of SN and one of my own dc has complex SN before you write off my comments.

Runwalk i suppose that if a school truly is inclusive and welcoming, the kids might respond like this.

Under the new system an EHCP is notoriously difficult to get

Not so. The Department for Education made it very clear that there should be no change, and the criteria are very similar to those that operated under the old law. In practice slightly more EHCPs have been issued over the last year than statements before the law changed.

Thanks Boneyback x

Megatherium your post assumes that it was easy to get a Statement.

Snatched pencil is nearer to reality than Haskell.

Sadly in a set of 25 pupils, 15 of whom have differing SNs it is nigh on impossible to support them all adequately. Even being trained better wouldn't help. There simply isn't enough time and I am not a super human. I do my best, group pupils with similar needs, work with small groups where possible. But it is bloody hard work and I know it is far from perfect.

Planetary, my post was in response to someone suggesting it is much more difficult to get an EHCP than it was to get a Statement.