to think that mainstream schools think SN kids are a drain?

[Planetarymagic1]

My understanding is that schools dont get aby additional funding for kids with Special Needs unless the needs are so exceptional that they can then apply for Exceptional Needs Funding, even if the child has an EHCP. Is that right?

(Before MN explodes, ive NC and have 2 SN kids at a Voluntary Aided mainstream primary, and am starting to feel like we are a bit of a drain and we should somehow be more grateful. Am i right about the funding? My kids are extra expensive?)

Lougle thats interesting. Ive just skimmed the 124 page guidence document and it outlines the formulas, plus the mechanisms in place regarding exceptional funding. They work in cluster groups of need, so i can see which other schools are in our groups. They also helpfully list the strategies which they suggest must be tried, before applying for ENF.
Im going to study it harder tomorrow.

Choclatecake, Rhoda and Superram, thankyou.

Itsallgoodimtold - that's an interesting approach but not what is being implemented here.
Strictly speaking an LA must assess if a child has, or may have, additional educational needs. That's it. The LAs put their own guidelines in but the law will trump the guidelines.

Also how do i find a "better" school, that has places, and that will take my children? On paper, their school currently looks amazing. Theyre getting lots of academic input but the social and communication/soft skills are lacking. I really truly wish there was an alternative. Plus, i could only report to the LA once we have left as i woukdnt want them to remove any of their interventions, which are essentially discretionary.

I too had the same problem with a VA school. Ds went to another school after being H/E for 2 years and I just wish I had known about this school earlier. The ofsted report was not great on new school but it turned out to be the best school for him ever.

Not automatically, rollonthesummer. The new funding system deliberately divorced the two.

Ok. Nearly all children who have an EHCP have additional funding allocated. I don't know of any currently that don't.

"rollonthesummer

Not automatically, rollonthesummer. The new funding system deliberately divorced the two.

Ok. Nearly all children who have an EHCP have additional funding allocated. I don't know of any currently that don't."

Absolutely. Because schools are required to use up to £6k towards a child's EHCP from their notional SEN budget, and in most cases they will apply for EHCP when that is exceeded. However, there will be children who need an EHCP because there is a certain resource or provision that is specialist and essential, but only available with an EHCP. Or it might be that the child needed a lot of support when it was badly targeted, but with specialist input, they actually only need moderate well targeted support (e.g. full 1:1 becomes more limited direct support because well used prompts, cues and visual timetables helps the child understand their environment and grow independence).

Legally, the only children who need an EHCP now, are children going to Special Schools. Any other child can have their needs met (practically) from SEN support plus high needs block funding (except that I would accept that as a parent because it wouldn't have the legal status that an EHCP does).

Whilst this is the case legally it is not what is happening on the ground everywhere. For a long time my LA has only been giving statements to pupils it was thought needed to move to special/specialist placements. There were basically a ticket out of mainstream and that was it. No pupil, however significant their needs, had a statement in mainstream and they were funded via annual High Needs Block applications.

Now they have shifted to mainstream EHCPs. My school has had to make around 10 applications this year for pupils who were previously on HN funding. When EHCPs are finalised pupils are allocated a 'top up' band, currently between 2k - 35k to cover the cost of whatever provision they need in whatever setting. If it's special/ specialist there is also 10k place funding, if mainstream just AWPU.

While I'm sorry for your situation , OP, YABU for posting that "mainstream Schools, etc."

It's exactly like the "teachers are...etc" that grab attention and don't help the debate.

There is a nominal £6k that any child identified with sen is allocated as part of whole school funding (elements 1 and 2)

Then there is top up element 3 funding which is accessed via a statement or ehcp and is for that child specifically as their needs have been identified as such that they cannot be met via best endeavours (schools own resources) in theory this means that no child without additional funding should have an ehcp however some authority's do issue them without funding mostly to avoid tribunals.

Children in specialist schools must have a ehcp or statement unless they are pupil referral units in which case the placements are temporary anyway and they should remain on the roll of their original school.

A child does not have to be in a specialist school to have an ehcp or a plan. The vast majority of them are in mainstream.

A mainstream school has to prove that they cannot meet the needs of a pupil on an ehcp or plan to refuse them a place. LAs have to consult with them and they have 15 days to respond if they cannot meet need and the LA accepts that then they will consult with others and may consider specialist provision. If the can meet need they name them on the statement or plan. If the LA believe that the school can meet need (for example another mainstream have said yes or the reason are not valid) and the school have said no then the LA can direct them to take the child. This is for maintained schools not the case with academies. The LA can negotiate but it needs DFE to direct to take which is frankly appalling.

Interesting.

My DS2 has just moved to a junior school, having been in an infant school before. He has SEN. The infant school funded 1:1 TA time for him. This did change over time but when he left year 2 he had his 1:1 from midday till the end of the day every day. This was to help him manage lunchtime and the afternoons in class - times when he really struggled.

He does not have an EHCP and despite a couple of long meetings as his transition approached the junior school decided not to fund any 1:1 TA time for him. It very quickly became apparent that he could not cope without any extra help. We have had a very difficult term with many, many phone calls to come and fetch him and 3 fixed term exclusions. The school have now had behaviour support and EP into school and are now funding full time 1:1 for him. Even with this he is still struggling but we now don't get so many phone calls and he hasn't been excluded for a month or so now. I am hopeful that at the next review meeting he will be referred for an EHCP assessment.

Sorry I meant to add that I too have had comments along the lines of we are spending a lot of money on him. Implying he is a drain. I just replied that it was their legal obligation to meet his needs! Although I do think they would like to get rid of him really!

Cece

A review can be called at any time and you can request one.

You can request a needs assessment yourself if you need to. It's difficult to evidence without school support but if they are engaging outside agencies and have plans in place not just behavior but what they are going to to to identify triggers and strategies tried and he is not making educational progress then it should be easy to evidence. Speak to the senco when the schools are back.

It is not true to say (for my LA) that the only children getting EHC plans are the ones with a high enough need to go to special schools. There are many children where I live, and I work for a local SEN charity plus have a son with an EHCP, and around 70% of EHCPs go to kids in mainstream. This includes my own son. There is statutory money attached per EHCP/child and then the 'funding' attached to it is an additional thing. All EHCPs have money attached as standard, but it's not a part of what they describe as "money attached". We do have a fantastic school here for children with special needs and learning disabilities, but many children have their EHCP assessment while still at nursery, and then go to a mainstream school. I wouldn't say that schools perceive the children as a drain per se, more that they have an adverse affect on their results/tests/exams. This appears to be the case with my son's school. You do have to be quite strong in advocating for a child with SEN as it seems that everyone, from CAMHS, to the school, to the NHS are so overstretched that they will give the bare minimum that the parent will roll over and accept. You need to be very assertive, and get them all on your side, whilst simultaneously subtly showing them you won't take any less than the best for your child.

Not a drain but they present challenges.
Special Needs are by their nature 'special'. Most teachers have not had enough specialist training on the many issues that might arise. The common issues will be catered for. However, in certain circumstances you, the parent, will know much more than the teacher.
This is certainly true in secondary school. In secondary school some teachers will be out of their depth - not all teachers - but some.
This results in extra work and people don't like it. Most teachers realise it is the fault of the system and they complain about the overwork, some resent the pupils.
In my experience SEND pupils benefit from expert teachers, trained to meet their needs. But even though I am a teacher, even though I work closely with a SEND unit, even though I work with SEND pupils, I am not an expert. I would want a SN child of mine taught by experts.

mygorgeousmilo There is statutory money attached per EHCP/child and then the 'funding' attached to it is an additional thing. All EHCPs have money attached as standard, but it's not a part of what they describe as "money attached"

Where is this described? do you have any notes/links for your LA? I cant find anything at all about any money attached as standard, and my school repeat this ad infinitum.

Oddbins

if they are engaging outside agencies and have plans in place not just behavior but what they are going to to to identify triggers and strategies tried and he is not making educational progress then it should be easy to evidence.

It is his behaviour that is the main problem - he is a danger to himself, peers and staff sad and this does impact on his learning - however he is not behind educationally and in maths he is above where he should be. However, he certainly isn't reaching his full potential academically.

We are currently awaiting a decision from CAHMS regarding whether they will do an assessment on him.

Money attached is not standard any more.
Some have funding some don't.

I note today that my LA only gives Personal Budget for care and social needs, not educational ones. I had considered home educating and thought if we got the ehcp then perhaps we could have some £ towards tutors etc, as it wiuld still beway cheaper than a school place. Thats another option gone then. I dont know what to do.

Anyway, to come back to my original point, it feels that the system is set up so that schools have more money to spend and an easier time of it, if they dont have to consider kids with additional needs. In fact relativeky speaking, those kids are a doddle.

Both my kids are too high functioning for the local MLD school so i guess we just have to suck it up.

There is no statutory money attached to EHCPs. Categorically. The funding mechanism is specifically designed to prevent an incentive to acquiring an EHCP, which attaching a statutory fund to it would bring. Read the funding document and the SEN Code.

It just happens that many children who need EHCPs will have needs exceeding £6k, so will receive funding as a result of the EHCP because their needs have been identified and must be met.

Lougle the nominal £6k isnt in the SENCOP either is it?

No it's in the funding document.

Where abouts? Cant find it!

High Needs Funding arrangements 2016-2017 from the Government.

I have twin girls with various issues in a voluntary aided school and we are def a drain! The head has even told me so by stating she has other additional needs children in the school and well she doesn't get funding for mine! Yes I want to facepalm her! If it wasn't for having an older child in said school who was settled I would have moved them long ago!