To demand fruit first

[Rixera]

My 19 month old DD seems to think so.
She has become a fruit rejecting, veg scorning, biscuit eating monster.
She demanded a biscuit. I offered a selection of fruit. She asked for an apple. I peeled it for her. She demanded a biscuit. I said have some apple first.

Nearly an hour on she is bright red and still howling, we are both covered in her snot, and she is still clutching the apple, licked but unbitten. I am holding firm. No biscuits until she has at least had a bite of her fruit.

AIBU? Should I just give her the sodding biscuit?

Also. I'm 37, well aware of the importance of a balanced diet - and I bloody hate apples.

Kids are allowed to dislike stuff. Think of them as like human beings, but smaller.

I hear you about the biscuits. It's difficult when you've got one who's realised they like biscuits (or cake or whatever) more than anything else, and doesn't see why they shouldn't just have biscuits for every meal.

Only solution I found is to not have any biscuits at all for a while, sadly. then re-introduce once biscuit-mania has passed. But I do think giving the thing they like best as a reward tends to increase the value of it, which can intensify the problem.

I eat relatively little fresh fruit - though there is always stuff in the house.

On the other hand I eat plenty of salad and vegetables.

Yes, nutrition is important. I think the tormenting children with fruit must be relatively new phenomenon. I honestly don't remember it from my childhood. (Lots of tinned fruit, jars of mush etc.)

Personally I don't think I would be forcing her to eat the apple, but would simply have said fruit is all there is - if you are hungry eat it, if you aren't then leave it but there isn't anything else

this exactly.

You can maker her fresh smoothies, give her some fresh fruit salad, put bits of fruits in yogurts. They have phases anyway, one week a toddler can live off strawberries, and refuse to even look at them the next. It's fine, as long as they have a balanced diet.

I handled a similar fruit/veg refuser by chucking out all the biscuits and treats and only feeding fruit and veg for snacks from that point until she turned 4 - I even her daycare from giving her anything else for snacks. You're the mum do you're boss. Don't ever back down.

I can't believe you let her cry herself into exhaustion for an hour over a fucking apple/biscuit.

I'm sure some of you are perfect parents, but I doubt the OP expected it to be such an issue! I don't think she thought 'oh, I know I'll insist she has an apple so she can cry herself to sleep', more like I'll offer the apple and hope for the best.

I have to say an NVT friend did this - every single time there was any biscuit or chocolate option the mum would insist on fruit first, even at her bday party mum did large fruit platter then sweets I don't get it myself.

Its all sweet - so I would either give biscuit or fruit and I dont think its a good idea to merge the two in such a way.

Mine love fruit I never had to force - I just offer one or the other

I also think forcing is not a good idea because it makes a big deal about it then they dig in.

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/sep/22/dont-make-children-eat-greens

is worth a read.

I think the key in this is that you should o my issue ultimatums that you are prepared to follow through. I have a liberal approach to biscuits and sweet treats for my DC. But I have a cast iron rule that if I say something then I follow through on it. Especially important for my ASD son who can't cope with flexible boundaries.

However the key is I would very rarely say they had to eat some fruit before having a biscuit. I would offer the fruit and if they didn't eat it then just take it away. We need to think really carefully about giving firm options as it is crucial (yes even with toddlers - of which is have one and an older child) that they know that you mean what you say and will follow through on it. In a positive and disciplinary way e.g. that if you promise to do something they will trust you will do it as they have learnt that you are true to your word. Saying one thing then backing down and doing something else just reinforces that what you say means nothing.

Thankyou for the article, that was really interesting and good to know.
I guess I need to relax a bit- but also I wasn't forcing her to eat the apple or tantrum. I tried distracting her, taking her outside, but each time she would sign for hungry and ask for a biscuit, to which I replied no, no biscuits now, here is your apple. Until the fruit/veg refusal to the past week she really liked apple.
Every time I said no biscuits now, she renewed her screaming efforts.

I think we may have to do no more biscuits as snacks for a while.

I wonder if the texture of biscuits is attractive to her as well a the taste.

She could still be teething and maybe the slightly harder yet crumbly texture is soothing for her.

My Dsis also had an eating disorder and sounds very similar to you there is A LOT of emotion around food for her 2 girls and sweet things are always given as treats. I think people who haven't gone through an ED can't understand hence the "why let her cry over a biscuit " "forget it and move on" comments I could do that with mine, Dsis sadly can't.

I used to 'make' apple biscuits for mine at that age.
All I did was peel and core the apple and then slice into thin rounds, and viola, apple biscuits!
My kids used to fall for it

To be honest it's the same as she is with TV. I want her to have a healthy lifestyle- what parent wouldn't?- but if she wants to watch TV and I say no, it doesn't matter what toys I try to get her involved with, if I wrestle her shoes on and get her out for a walk, if I take her upstairs to jump on the bed, she will literally scream for an hour or more for TV. And it's not as simple as just let her watch some, because sometimes we might have to go somewhere, or she already watched lots earlier, or its naptime, dinnertime, bath time... I don't want her watching more than 2 or 3 hours a day, but she has a strong will.

Showed her empty biscuit packet today, after another hour tantrum she ate a banana. I couldn't give in as we didn't have any, and she pronounced the banana yum yum.

Maybe early ASD signs or something? She's not spoilt, has secure boundaries, but once she gets fixated she just can't seem to let go. She's generally happy though, these meltdowns are not frequent, just extreme when they do happen.

I think also I struggle to let go of the healthy eating thing because we are very low income so for a while we couldn't afford enough fruit and only basic frozen veg, so now we can I want her to get as much nutrition as possible. Plus the waste of spat out, dropped, rejected fruit that could have been eaten is frustrating when you scrimp to buy it.

On TV I would just go with no TV at all at 19 months if that's possible?

I do sympathise with the waste point, it's really hard.

I would think it's very early to worry about ASD but if you're concerned you should speak to a GP or health visitor.

I now only use it when unwell and unable to do productive activities!

I'm not going to stress about it, just remembering my ASD brother in his younger years. It could just be stubbornness, but he fixated in the same way. Probably too early to tell :)

well I am sorry but I am 52 and i would hate it if I had to eat an apple every time I wanted a biscuit.
If you don't want her to have biscuits, don't buy them...it's really that simple.

19 months? I would be ecstatic if my 21 month old boy would want a biscuit! I can't imagine having such a standoff at such a young age, mine wouldn't even understand what the problem is!

I wouldn't worry about ASD because of a few tantrums...I have been worried about ASD in mine and she seems to be doing really well for her age if she can communicate that well and understands what you're saying to her.

Perhaps there's a sort of balance to be struck.

Obviously it's great that you want to feed your child a varied, healthy diet and do productive activities.

On the other hand, I just think children need to be able to choose a bit. Not all the time and not about everything.

But it is healthy and normal for a very small child to want to assert herself and choose some things and say no to other things. It's good if one can see that as a quality to celebrate, rather than source of fear or something to be overcome. (Thinking that the parent at all times has to win.)

I can see the occasional meltdown is scary - but perhaps if you let her feel that she's 'won' a bit more, there will be fewer of them....

She normally asks for what she wants and gets it, because she normally asks for quite reasonable things- can we go for a walk? Certainly! Can I put wear my wellies? Of course! Can I do my zip up? By all means! (Of course she asks semi verbally, pointing, gestures, and the odd word.)

So maybe because I don't have to say no to her much, she gets a lot of closed choices eg what outfit to wear/what direction to walk in/ which book to read, it is even more shocking when I do say no so she tantrums?

It's hard but I try to take a relaxed approach to eating. I encourage and try to tempt but never force the issue. Food was often a battleground when I was little (as an adult I could explain that certain textures are really unpleasant to me but I couldn't express that as a child). I really don't want to replicate that. It's hard because my daughter was prem and growth restricted so in the early months there was a big focus on getting milk into her to build her up. It's quite hard to let go of that and just let her not eat something if she doesn't want to.

"No biscuits now "is a very confusing message to give a 19m old.

She has no need for biscuits at all at her age. Just don't have them in the house.