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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think the Unions have a point?

98 replies

weresquirrel · 19/12/2016 16:07

So many companies/services have been privatised. The effect seems to be branch closures, loss of staff to be replaced by machines, longer queues, worse service and a lot more expensive.

I also think it is frightening how many workers rights are being eroded and workers are expected to work far longer, for less pay and in worse conditions.

Of course the media makes out that the Unions are all evil, Christmas wrecking baddies but actually with the rise of zero-hours contracts and loss of any kind of security for so many people, I think they actually have a point.

Of course I don't wish any one delays and I hate the frustration of getting places on strike days but perhaps it is better that we have all this now while there is still the possibility of workers rights being maintained than we have a population of workers that has no rights and forced to acquiesce to the whims of the Government and big business?

OP posts:

Manumission · 19/12/2016 18:23

That's not my -layperson's - understanding of the importance of guards bee

BusyBeez99 · 19/12/2016 18:35

Then why do other networks run safely using this process.

Manumission · 19/12/2016 18:37

I don't claim expertise in railway safety but the "that other lot are getting away with X so it must be fine" school of decision making doesn't have a great history.

originalmavis · 19/12/2016 18:38

I suspect it's more about the fear of the introduction of driverless trains.

It's still a sodding pain in the arse when I get canned at work because I gave to travel across town to take ds to school before coming to work (and I'm not just late every day because of strikes - the service is appalling and frequently run late because of lack of crew). Or have to take the day off when he has a half day, or spend £60 a day on taxis because I can't get to school or home.

SnatchedPencil · 19/12/2016 18:45

The issue is with the "fuck you" attitude unions display to the public. It is part and parcel with industrial action of course, because a strike that doesn't hurt the public will go largely unnoticed.

The public would have more sympathy if the unions were genuine in expressing their demands. The Southern Rail strikes, for example. They claim to be about safety, that more passengers are killed or injured when train doors are operated by the driver. This is statistical bullshit, the evidence shows that driver-operated-only trains are safer than when the conductor is in charge of the doors! In any case, surely the unions should be striking on routes that already operate driver-only services!

The real cause for this strike is purely political. The RMT know that once their conductors are no longer needed to run a train, any strike that they call in future will be largely irrelevant - the train can run anyway, so the public will not need to be inconvenienced.

Unions claim to be standing up to Goliath on behalf of David. But they are self-serving bullies, nothing more. And to hold the public hostage is unspeakably sick, it is little wonder that the public holds the strikers in such contempt.

In any case, such brutal industrial action is short-sighted. The government will surely use the current action as an excuse for further curbing the powers that the unions have. The public will largely be on their side. And you know what? The strikers will have only themselves to blame.

PlasticBertrand · 19/12/2016 18:45

The conditions for the average worker are far better now than at any point in history.

Thanks to whom? Oh yes, unions.

Other trains on the network operate the same driver closing door policy

A quick google reveals that 80% of major accidents where passengers are trapped in doors / between train and platform / dragged along the platform are on trains where the drivers shut the doors.

PlasticBertrand · 19/12/2016 18:47

Crossposted with SnatchedPencil. I'm not an expert here - what evidence are you citing?

Whatthefucknameisntalreadytake · 19/12/2016 18:49

Yanbu I fully support the unions, it is never an easy or quick decision to strike but sometimes the employers leave them no choice

OfaFrenchmind2 · 19/12/2016 18:53

I have no huge sympathy for Unions, but maybe it is because in my former company, the union chief was a petty little antisemit bleating about equality and love while spitting on the jews, getting away with doing fuck all work, and only moving his arse for his buddies and his party. At the level he was at, and the size of the company, i thought he was a great represntation of the ethos of his union, and they made me quite hateful...

Namechangebitch · 19/12/2016 19:04

Snatchedpencil Thankyou for calling me a self serving bully. I thought I was helping people and supporting them when their employer was ( in some cases) unjustly attacking them, or they were being bullied at work.
I do this voluntarily. It is a shame you hold people like me in contempt. If you ever need help or support at work I hope you can find someone to help you.

Holiday pay, sick pay, H&S at work, these ' rights' were not given to you. The Unions bullied these rights out of the employers.

user1471439240 · 19/12/2016 19:05

Thatcher killed any point in strike action when she legislated against secondary action and flying pickets.
She finished the unions.
Its sad, but its true.
Trots within the Labour Party today are trying their best, they'll destroy Labour too.

Lorelei76 · 19/12/2016 19:09

I am sympathetic
It's just on some cases there's no impact on management.

I know one idea they had for Tube issues was to just have all barriers open and staff actually wouldn't strike but no fares would be collected. I think that was rejected on safety grounds.

I am a bit unclear on Southern strike. I do wish more retail staff would strike though, I'm sure they could better conditions and if the shops can't open people will be fine!

HemanOrSheRa · 19/12/2016 19:13

I am still with you Name.

Striking workers do NOT get paid. Striking is NOT taken lightly. These people will be getting a very light pay packet in January after Christmas and a long month.

BusyBeez99 · 19/12/2016 19:16

snatchedpencil

I agree.

RortyCrankle · 19/12/2016 20:02

I think unions provided a very useful role when they were originally created but are now anachronistic. If you don't like something about your job then leave and find another one.

CockacidalManiac · 19/12/2016 20:03

I think unions provided a very useful role when they were originally created but are now anachronistic. If you don't like something about your job then leave and find another one.

How has society ever made progress with grade one selfishness and stupidity like this?

ClopySow · 19/12/2016 20:52

I feel a little surge of hope every time i see a strike. I feel like people are finding their fight again after being so massively fucked over for such a long time.

OlennasWimple · 19/12/2016 20:59

I'll feel pretty fucked over, TBH, if I don't get home at Christmas to see my family because of any combination of the Virgin pilots industrial action, the train strike and the baggage handlers strike...

robindeer · 19/12/2016 21:00

YANBU OP. Solidarity to all workers taking a stand (and a massive pay cut) this week. You have my full support.

BusyBeez99 · 19/12/2016 21:03

We are all in it together remember. Unless you are a union leader on massive salary

Namechangebitch · 19/12/2016 21:08

RortyCrankle I think I play a useful role negotiating t&cs to improve the working conditions of my members. When poor managers are bullying staff I help staff to defend themselves.
The employers where I work value the role we play. They want to listen to the voice of their workers they think it is good management. We don't always agree but we talk, like in any relationship.

There is an attitude that is anachronistic and it is your Victorian, authoritarian attitude.

Namechangebitch · 19/12/2016 21:10

Busy most union activists work for nothing.

The full time officials get paid. I think most people get paid for working full time.

BusyBeez99 · 19/12/2016 21:55

The ones at the top don't. Mick Cash c£137k; Len McCluskey c£130k for example.

Perhaps if they didn't get paid when the ones that pay their subs to fund their salary strike, they wouldn't be so keen to call workers to strike. Correct me if I'm wrong and they don't get paid when their members are on strike.....?

DarthPlagueis · 19/12/2016 21:58

Haven't we just had a whole 6 months of people telling us that there are a whole load of people that feel left behind, who are just about managing, who fear for their jobs etc etc.

Funny how its convenient to be their champion when it suits, and to disparage them when they need support.

Trade unions are vital to stopping the exploitation of staff, as we have seen with Amazon others.

MauiPooTroll · 19/12/2016 22:01

Busy I don't mind union leaders/staff having big salaries if they work for them/are good at the job. The same way I don't mind charity CEOs earning three figures - they work really hard, and are still earning a fraction of what they could earn elsewhere.

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