To be staggered at how many people are prescribed Anti-depressants.

[TheoriginalLEM]

People who seem to be pretty much on the ball with ok lives.

At my place of work there are four of us, that i know of, on the same medication (There are only about 20 employees in total)

Another mother at Dd's school, my friend who i met at dd's playgroup.

My friend from a previous job and both of her children.

So these are people who i know are on meds. People who have been happy to disclose this information to me. I don't have a large circle of friends or aquaintances so the sample group, if you like, is small.

Both my mother and my eldest Dd have both been offered Ad's.

I suffer from long term anxiety and depression and feel like the ADs help me. My Dr has expressed the view that this is something I will need for life.

Thats a lot of people who i KNOW are medicated. Why is this ? is it because life and expectations are such that people are suffering from mental illness or are people being given drugs when they are dealing with life events and should be offered strategies to cope. My personal experience is long waiting lists for counselling that wasn't that effective and given drugs to help in the absence of therapy.

I can't help but wonder why this is, what the statistics are.

In my family's case, as I have hinted above, the root of the depression is probably something (as yet poorly understood) to do with a hereditary and incurable connective tissue condition. So how do you improve people's shit lives if the shittiness is caused by a condition which causes anxiety and for which science has not as yet found a cure? Dc have been under the care of the genetics department and all they could say was "come back in 10 years time and see if there has been a breakthrough".

The same condition also causes pain in some of the people who have it (though not in all). Should we also tell them not to take painkillers because it's their shitty lives= the condition that needs improving?

Fruitcider, of course depersonalisation is a side effect for some takers of AD's; I don't think anyone is denying that. But that is not a reason not to try them for someone who has already suffered depersonalisation from depression and who might not actually experience the side effect.

My BP medication can cause horrendous side effects: there is a long list of nasties on the box. But as we did not know if I would be affected, and as I did undeniably have a far higher BP than was healthy, both I and my GP agreed that this was a risk worth taking.

I knew when dd started AD's that there was a risk they would lead to further suicide attempts. But since she was already suicidal, and there was also a chance they wouldn't, that again seemed a risk worth taking.

"blunted affect"

On the comments about GPs offering ads too frequently. I do think some people have an unrealstic expectation of what GPs can do. Mental illness is particularly tricky as it is, obviously, in the person's head and although there can be behavioural signs and symptoms, it must be really hard for a GP in a short consultation to be able to diagnose and offer the right treatment.

I think that the GP consultation is a two way process and patients have a responsibility not to be passive recipients but to engage. So all the people whose aunt, dad etc were offered ads when they didn't need them, well presumably they were capable of just saying, no, I don't think I need them. I think I should have actually been offered ads sooner and it would have been better for my family in particular, if I had. It must be a very difficult balance to make, and for GPs to know when to raise the subject of depression or ads. But I would rather some patients had to say no thank you, than people were left suffering unnecessarily because the GP felt they could not raise the possibility of depression.

And similarly for decisions about whether to stay on or come off ads, I really think it is the patient's responsibility to contact the GP if they want to consider a change. I don't think it's reasonable to expect GPs to be contacting you to ask if you want to come off your medication (although I'm surprised if anyone doesn't have to have periodic reviews anyway, I do even if no change).

I had the misfortune of being "treated" by a gung-ho, anti-medication CBT nurse when I was a psych inpatient. At the time, I had a diagnosis of schizophrenia.

She was known for being an absolute witch on the ward.

I was experiencing terror/hallucinations and hid under my bed in tears. She came round in her pinstripe suit and barked at me to get up, remove my hoody. "If you act crazy then you will become crazy". Told me that I was causing my own psychosis with my thought patterns. Refused to give me PRN.

When she was replaced next shift, the nurses apologised and gave me some PRN because I was completely out of it.

In my experience, HCPs who are anti-medication have some kind of "mind over matter" agenda to push and think those who take meds are weak.

I was finally treated a year later for bipolar and have been stable on meds since. I do tons of work myself - exercise, diet, sleep, socialising, stress-management - but I was in no place to do that work when I was psychotic and suicidally depressed.

FruitActually the main treatment for depersonalisation is SSRIs.

IMO modern life isn't as good as well are all led to believe it is and people suffer as a result. I'm one of those who has ended up on AD and beta blockers never ever thought I would but after 8 shitty years I snapped and depression hit. It was vile absolutely vile and I never want to go back to that point in my life again and so here I am on medication.

Fruitcider, of course depersonalisation is a side effect for some takers of AD's; I don't think anyone is denying that. But that is not a reason not to try them for someone who has already suffered depersonalisation from depression and who might not actually experience the side effect.

I didn't say that's a reason not take them! If they are needed, then they are needed. However I'm sure many people take them who don't need them, and these people do not get any clinical benefit from them.

I've definitely felt that "flat" feeling from SSRIs (when they haven't sent me loopy with agitation, suicidal and self-harming urges, and hallucinations/delusions). It's a total drag.

I think ADs are given out way too frequently. I was shoved on to them despite asserting I wasn't in the least depressed but in dire need of more thyroid hormone. Awful drugs when you don't need them with horrendous side effects. I also think the contraceptives women take could be linked to depression.

There used to be a bit of financial incentive attached too I think, QOF points related to the percentage prescribed or maybe I've got that wrong?

Depersonalisation (being detached from your surroundings) as a very well known side effect of some antidepressants. Just because you haven't experienced it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist!

Fruit Your original comments on this implied you think it is a common effect of ads. It may be a side effect for some, it is not one I have experienced.

For me, it was depression/anxiety which cut me off from my surroundings and my ability to experience them and be in touch with my feelings and emotions. I expect I am not alone in this.

I think, as with much in medicine, individual experiences of the illness, and treatments, are hugely varied.

In my experience, HCPs who are anti-medication have some kind of "mind over matter" agenda to push and think those who take meds are weak.

I really hope you are not referring to me! Because I take the mental health of my patients very seriously! But you have to understand, my working environment is not a usual one, my patients do not choose their place or length of residence and I only have access to 130 patients for about 5 hours a day, 3 of which I am stuck in a locked room administering medication. My patients frequently palm and trade their medication - I've seen someone spit their liquid diazepam out and another patient lick it off their hand! We HAVE to be cautious in recommending medication for patients to doctors, because it's an addicts nature to seek more drugs. They are all used to self medicating and find it utterly distressing when they lose control. But that is not a mental health problem in itself. It's my job to help them come to terms with managing without medication they do not need.

And when they do need medication, I pick up on it quickly and strongly advocate for them. For me, medication is not the best treatment. That doesn't mean I disregard its need for others!

WrongTrouser makes a good point:

"I think that the GP consultation is a two way process and patients have a responsibility not to be passive recipients but to engage. So all the people whose aunt, dad etc were offered ads when they didn't need them, well presumably they were capable of just saying, no, I don't think I need them."

Surely if anyone can be expected to engage responsibly in their own treatment it must be the people without MH issues?

perfume

Thats exactly what happened to my friend

Unless you are my friend in which case...no i havent been talking about you

Thornrose and there lies the problem, is OK to drug people because paying for decent social housing and creating good working conditions is too much like hard work ? Seems that's what we've sleep walked into and it's only getting worst

Rufus it's happened to almost every thyroid friend of mine too. Given low doses of Levothyroxine, having to beg for more but told it's depression instead.

I did engage with the GP and I did insist I didn't need ADs but was told that was all that was on offer. Took them for two weeks then binned them. Load of nonsense when all I needed was a higher dose of thyroid hormone. And when I did get the thyroid increased by an Endocrinologist, all my symptoms of exhaustion and anxiety disappeared. No apology was ever forthcoming.

Newbrummie Mon 19-Dec-16 14:43:23

"Thornrose and there lies the problem, is OK to drug people because paying for decent social housing and creating good working conditions is too much like hard work ?"

Newbrummie, all the posters who have told us anything about their own situation or those of their families on this thread have stressed that their living and working conditions are actually fine. No one has suggested that they even require social housing or that they do not have good working conditions.

They are symptomatic of our narrow quick fix lonely unsupportive society.

I don't doubt they save lives at all and would never admonish anyone's choice or necessity in taking them.

I wonder if we weren't such a high pressured society full of people forced to take so much shot whether they would be as necessary

I think we are at cross purposes cory I'm not referring to those who definitely do have medically diagnosed depression at all

perfume

New dr at the surgery as well

Ds1 was going to speak to the dr about some mh issues and i made him check that he wasnt going to see the same dr!!

So Posie, how do you feel about those posters (myself and at least one other) who mention depression/anxiety as something that has run through their families for generations? Did my grandfather (a man born in a rural backwater in the 1880s) somehow anticipate the modern pressurised society and become depressed through some kind of prescience?

We're all on them in our house (acute anxiety, depression, social phobia, autism) they've given us our lives back

Even the cat is on tryptophan for her nerves and anxiety related cystitis

...to resolve chronic mental health issues like depression involves the patient actively participating in getting better and overhauling their lifestyles alongside medication. Something many people aren't willing to do in a day where quick fixes are king...

True. And then again, some people don't stay well without medication, however hard they have worked and however sorted they are. They inevitably relapse and choose to take ADs permanently rather than spend their lives waiting for the downward slide.

And for severe depression, ADs do work better than placebo.

I just want to recommend Andrew Solomon's book "The Noonday Demon - an anatomy of depression". It's a fantastic book.

corythatwas see I would say it runs in my family too, along with shit circumstances and those who aren't depressed have no or few children and made different life choices and surprise surprise they and indeed their children do not suffer from anything at all !