To be staggered at how many people are prescribed Anti-depressants.

[TheoriginalLEM]

People who seem to be pretty much on the ball with ok lives.

At my place of work there are four of us, that i know of, on the same medication (There are only about 20 employees in total)

Another mother at Dd's school, my friend who i met at dd's playgroup.

My friend from a previous job and both of her children.

So these are people who i know are on meds. People who have been happy to disclose this information to me. I don't have a large circle of friends or aquaintances so the sample group, if you like, is small.

Both my mother and my eldest Dd have both been offered Ad's.

I suffer from long term anxiety and depression and feel like the ADs help me. My Dr has expressed the view that this is something I will need for life.

Thats a lot of people who i KNOW are medicated. Why is this ? is it because life and expectations are such that people are suffering from mental illness or are people being given drugs when they are dealing with life events and should be offered strategies to cope. My personal experience is long waiting lists for counselling that wasn't that effective and given drugs to help in the absence of therapy.

I can't help but wonder why this is, what the statistics are.

I don't think it helps that we have to navigate our way through a society that seems totally devoid of compassion for the individual.

Firstly, we have a never ending stream of entertainment where people who are living hard and choatic lives are thrown up to the public to laugh at and keep on red alert about what may happen should you ever made a bad decision - nothing more than a cheap laugh and a cautionary tale.

Secondly, we are seeing the total erosion of safety nets for the vulnerable under the march of the Tory mantra of economic rationality.

Thirdly, social mobility has ground to a halt. This is the painful reality against which the idea the we are totally in control of our own destiny is played. The effect is a kind of society wide gas-lighting.

All of this is just the background to which people have to live their lives with their unreliable human bodies with their unreliable human relationships.

Between anti-ds, alcohol, drugs, eating disorders and other tactics that people use to get through - I can't imagine the number of people swanning through this life without an aid is particularly huge.

I remember watching a programme about traditional hunter gatherer societies. They only work for 2-3 hours a day. The presenters told them how many hours people worked in our society, and they were stunned. Many people, especially when you include housework, cooking and boring childcare such as lifts to supervised activities, work very very long hours. Most humans have not lived like this.

Between anti-ds, alcohol, drugs, eating disorders and other tactics that people use to get through - I can't imagine the number of people swanning through this life without an aid is particularly huge

I'm sure you didn't mean it that way Kondos but I think this is deeply offensive, and just wrong.

Comparing taking ads to drinking, drugs, eating disorders? No, just no.

Before I went on ads I couldn't cope with anything. This affected not only me but my DH and most importantly our small children. Once I took ads I returned to being a good partner and a happy, involved, caring mother. I take ads to get better, to be myself. This has been a huge benefit to myself and my family.

How is that in anyway comparable to someone drinking or taking drugs or an eating disorder? These are more like the depression itself, not the treatment, most obviously eating disorders, but all of them. They are destructive actions.

Taking ads (if you need them) is constructive, a positive action.

I'm just not distinguishing between those who use the socially acceptable crutches and those who don't WHEN it comes to how they arrived at that point. Of course, I agree, that how a person attempts to deal with their stress will have a different outcome for both themselves and their family.

There is surely a huge difference between ADs and alcohol in that taking ADs alters brain chemistry but only within the range of what other human beings are experiencing naturally. Alcohol is actually changing your brain beyond what the human brain naturally does.

ADs are like wearing glasses to see, or using an inhaler to breathe.

I think it is no surprise that the people in the world that come out as the happiness are in the poorest societies

Where are you hearing this? The only things I can find rating happiness around the world are the World Happiness Report and the Happy Planet Index, which don't actually really measure happiness as such. I think life can be pretty grim in a lot of countries and depression (or a similar culturally-understood phenomenon) exists pretty much everywhere there are humans.

almond
only within the range of what other human beings are experiencing naturally

I have experienced ADs taken over a relatively short period following a bereavement : the quashing down of all strong feeling, either good or bad, and the "brain zapps" which followed for over a decade afterwards after stopping them had nothing to do with what a healthy person experiences naturally.

That's very interesting Brasty.

I think Condos made a very good point too and don't think it was offensive. Great post actually.

In case any one would be interested in trying this alternative which has undergone a trial.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16542786

only within the range of what other human beings are experiencing naturally

First time I ever got admitted to psychiatric hospital was a short while after I started taking antidepressants for the first time. Before I took them, I was stressed and a little depressed; when I started taking them I became suicidal, agitated and desperate. While correlation does not imply causation (haha) it's very suggestive. In fact that was on the second antidepressant I tried; the first one, I only took for about a week before starting on the second one, because it gave me terrible agitation and I started to think people were whispering about me behind my back. They're powerful mind-altering chemicals, for good or bad.

KDT, aren't the brain zaps a side effect? I have pretty bad side effects from inhalers, but I'd still think the point of them is to make my ability to breathe more normal.

Quashing down of all strong feeling maybe is what some people naturally experience.

People reach for a variety of coping strategies under stress. Some of them help, some of them work, some don't help at all, some make things worse.

Plenty of people with anxiety and depression might reach out for any number of behaviours or strategies for a temporary fix and some of these lead to far greater problems.

Anti-ds are the most helpful and effective tool in the same way that ventolin is for asthmatics. But lots of people don't realise they are asthmic straight away. The give up exercise, avoid certain environments and foods, go to bed early, feel like shit until they head to the doctor and get help. Worse is when they feel like all their own strategies make a difference and end up having an attack and being blue lighted to hospital not knowing what happened.

I think this thread has shown some interesting views about depression and ads. I would say there are, roughly speaking, two camps - one is that depression is an illness, and the other is that it isn't.

I wonder how frequently people who have suffered real depression (of the sort which you cannot get yourself out of by lifestyle changes, exercise, thinking) believe it is not an illness.

I can remember first contemplating needing ads as a huge step. It's very difficult to explain but it did feel like a huge loss in some way, a huge admission of defeat and of inadequacy, like stepping off one world and into another. But luckily for me, I was able to take that step. It was the right thing to do, for me and my family.

I want to say to anyone on the thread who has had to take ads, it is a sign of strength to get the help you need. It is not a sign of weakness. Weakness would be if you turned to one of the list above (drink or drugs, not eating disorders, that is another disease, not a choice). Or if you continued to live half a life in misery, hardly getting through the day whilst your life and your children's lives (if you have dc) pass by.

People who take ads are not failures, they are people with an illness, who have managed, despite that illness, to get the help they need to get better

I don't know about anyone else but I have a combination of medical issues for which I will need to be on medication for the rest of my life. I frequently count my blessings that I live at a time and in a country where these medicines are available to me. Without them I don't think I would be here.

to anyone who has faced depression and managed to get the help they need to defeat it.

Quashing down of all strong feeling maybe is what some people naturally experience

That would mean no excitement over something lovely, no strong feelings of love, little empathy etc. It is not what being human is about really, in my opinion.

Brain Zapping is awful an unacceptable unless there is absolutely no alternative.

I do understand that for some people there may be no alternative.

two camps - one is that depression is an illness, and the other is that it isn't.

I think it is more complicated than that. In my opinion:

1. Many events in life are difficult and sad, to react to them does not mean one is ill.

1. Some aspects of life style, for example other drugs, food, lack of exercise can make some people can make a person depressed, but they are not depressed because they have an illness in their brain.

3, There are alternative treatments for depression that might be worth trying if the person is capable of trying them for example St Johns Wort for, certain vitamins and minerals which may be lacking in the body through lifestyle or for other reasons; omega 3 oils; exercise; coming off hormonal contraception; mindfulness and yoga to lower stress.

1. There are some people with depression that is too severe, and/or circumstances just too difficult to cope with, who cannot do without anti-depressants, so any side effects are worth it.

Sometimes AD are needed just for the short term, at other times a person may need them indefinitely.

1. Anti-depressants should usually only be prescribed alongside counselling as they will not cure any mental reactions to the causes of the depression, or prevent physical habits contributing to it.

Like the poster, I know/have known lots of people who take/have taken ADs in my life. However, recently my husband tried to get some help from our GP. He has tried twice now, but GP refuses to prescribe them and just keeps referring him to various websites for help.
I am wondering if it depends on your Gp or whether they are trying to crackdown on them now? Hubby definitely is depressed and could do with help.

I think it does depend on your GP

Also there is more awareness that ad's have been often over prescribed or prescribed to quickly and that other treatments might be better

So if patient accesses other treatments and doesn't return to their GP this in theory should have helped them

But the issues is we don't know if people are access other help

5. Anti-depressants should usually only be prescribed alongside counselling as they will not cure any mental reactions to the causes of the depression, or prevent physical habits contributing to it.

I was referred for counselling. Called them up, went through the triage/assessment process. Was added to waiting list (5 months) and then removed as they decided I didn't need it after all.

My depression was situational and the situation has changed so luckily I will get through w/o counselling. Could really have done with it at the time though.

I think if your depression is caused by tangible issues in your actual life, then talking therapies, exercise and life style changes can be of real benefit.

But, sometimes I think there are no issues in your life, and there is just something chemically wrong (like me with my pesky hormones) then ADs really are the answer.

I think that part of the problem is that depression is not a simple condition - you can't isolate a single cause for it, and one person can have several of the different triggers for it in their life, and in their physiology. And someone else can have the exact same combination of triggers/causes, and yet never suffer from depression.

I am just grateful that there are treatments for it - life saving, in many cases - but I wish that there was more research into depression, and more money for treatments, so that people could get what they need, and get back to being themselves again.

Hi OP, I don't know off the top of my head I'm afraid.

We've discussed various causes of mental ill health, largely societal, or the ever-popular 'chemical imbalance' theory.

One thing I've not seen mentioned is the possibility of gut flora having an effect. I remember several articles about this, and find it truly fascinating. (I've linked to a couple below). I think it just goes to show that we really have no true idea. My gut (ha!) says that there are likely multiple factors and causes, and this is why some treatments work for some and not for others.

www.sciencenews.org/article/microbes-can-play-games-mind

www.medicaldaily.com/food-thought-gut-bacteria-mood-behavior-379915

As an addendum: this leads to the obvious question - is our reliance on antibiotics, even bleach etc, affecting our mental health?

KindDogs, where is your entry no 6: "Some people may experience severe recurring anxiety/depression despite the fact that they themselves would be the first to recognise that there is nothing in their circumstances that makes them unhappy"?

Also, as several posters on this thread had attested, the point that severe depression in itself can be brain-zapping and cut out the ability to feel emotions, in which case, taking ADs can actually be the only way for the person to recover their ability to feel.

Psychiatrists used to classify depression as reactive or endogenous- reactive meaning depression as a result of an event like bereavement of redundancy and endogenous being depression that occurs for no apparent reason.
I was on ADs for a large of my twenties but I don't think they helped much because I wasn't clinically depressed, I was just messed up.
I have had what would previously have been diagnosed as endogenous depression and ended up in hospital for 2 months after coming very close to ending my life. There was absolutely no 'reason' for it, my life was pretty close to perfect but it literally felt like my brain just went wrong. I couldn't eat and lost a huge amount of weight, I only slept for about an hour at night. I was having constant palpitations. I struggled with making even the most simple decisions, my concentration was virtually zero and my short term memory was appalling. I felt constantly guilty and thought I was evil. All I could think about was death.
When I was on the ward, there was a trainee psychologist who tried to do CBT with me. It was a total waste of time as I couldn't think straight and could barely take in anything that was being said to me. I spent most of one session eyeing up the plastic bag lining the bin and wondering if I could sneak it to my room and put it over my head.
I'm a CPN and I tend to agree that ADs are over prescribed, particularly for mild depression but, for severe depression, they are definitely needed and can be life saving.
I am a great believer in exercise and there is evidence that exercise is as effective for mild depression as ADs but there is no way I could have 'just gone for a run' when I was at my most depressed- it would take me 2 hours to summon up the mental energy to get out of bed.
Mental health is supposed to work on a 'Biopsychosocial' model. Some people are depressed because of their social situation, some because of psychological issues and some as a result of brain chemistry. Sometimes it's a combination of issues. I have 'cured' a patient of chronic depression by managing to get her rehoused and supporting her to apply for more benefits. No amount of medication or therapy had made any difference.