To be staggered at how many people are prescribed Anti-depressants.

[TheoriginalLEM]

People who seem to be pretty much on the ball with ok lives.

At my place of work there are four of us, that i know of, on the same medication (There are only about 20 employees in total)

Another mother at Dd's school, my friend who i met at dd's playgroup.

My friend from a previous job and both of her children.

So these are people who i know are on meds. People who have been happy to disclose this information to me. I don't have a large circle of friends or aquaintances so the sample group, if you like, is small.

Both my mother and my eldest Dd have both been offered Ad's.

I suffer from long term anxiety and depression and feel like the ADs help me. My Dr has expressed the view that this is something I will need for life.

Thats a lot of people who i KNOW are medicated. Why is this ? is it because life and expectations are such that people are suffering from mental illness or are people being given drugs when they are dealing with life events and should be offered strategies to cope. My personal experience is long waiting lists for counselling that wasn't that effective and given drugs to help in the absence of therapy.

I can't help but wonder why this is, what the statistics are.

hackmum, I fully agree that many people are probably taking them and I'm just unaware - I said as much in my post.

That's why this is such an eye-opener for me.

You tend to think of your own little bubble as 'normal' - neither me nor DH have ever been on them, so I've never had any reason to know that their use was so incredibly widespread.

I am shocked. Not because I think it's bad for people to be on them, or that they're being over-prescribed, or anything like that. I'm shocked that so many people are not coping. It's fucking tragic and I think that we (society) have really lost our way, that getting through the day-to-day is such a struggle for so many people.

These links should give some information but really it's pharmacological principles that explain the differences in efficacy.

books.google.co.uk/books?id=XYYkA73cnCoC&pg=PA349&lpg=PA349&dq=SSRI+SAR+and+adverse+events&redir_esc=y&hl=en#v=onepage&q=SSRI%20SAR%20and%20adverse%20events&f=false

www.emedexpert.com/compare/ssris.shtml#9

Fruit I am really struggling to understand your posts. Several pps have said they would not be alive without ads. My life, if I still had one, would be wrecked. To be honest, whether they work for 10% or 90%, to those of us who have needed them and who they have helped, is not really the point. Shall we give up with cancer treatments too as not everyone is cured? Or shall we just carry on with the best treatment options we have until something better is found?

But having something "wrong" with the thing that makes you you, and having to take medication that's solely intended to change that mental problem, does feel different.

I don't agree that there's something "wrong with the thing that makes me me". I had a problem that stopped me from being me. Bipolar isn't me, it is a state of illness that makes me unlike my normal self. Therefore it's been treated and now I'm back to normal.

Not sure why the insulin analogy is considered so 'boring'. I too have agreed with my doctor that I will probably be on ADs for life. I have had some talking therapy, but it only helped to a certain point. I know why I'm the way I am; it is a chemical imbalance in the brain together with a combination of an emotionally abusive upbringing, a convent educational full of catholic guilt, a controlling mother with whom who I am now NC and, I believe, genetics. My sister is worse than me as she refuses medication. The pills help me feel like me as I should be. For various reasons I didn't have any for a week recently and spent several days sobbing and raging. I managed to keep on top of my business but my family suffered.

Sorry Lem. To answer your question I think there is a lot of people who need ad's that don't take them. Some posts on mn can really highlight this. It's sad there is still a stigma.

Some MH orders seem to be "trendy" for lack of a better word. I have a friend forever posting quotes about bi-polar on FB for sympathy and likes.

There's nothing fucking wrong with her. I've been through hell with my mental health as well she knows and it feels like a slap in the face. She's now blocked.

I do agree that too many people mistake feeling fed up and discontented with actual clinical depression. I think I did, once upon a time.

But they are two very different states of mind.

Pete that is not what i asked for. I asked for the research that provides the information pictated in your image.

MaQueen I said nothing about cell memory, misquoted .... But if muscle memory is a thing then maybe .. Don't know, don't claim to know

Sorry, would you rather go back to believing that "cells remember things" instead? That does seem more valid than a textbook.

I started ADs at 12. Yes you read that right 12!

I'm 26 now so most my life has been on antidepressants. I do suffer from depression bad and did have some very odd behaviour but still 12 seems so young .

I think it depends whether it's a situation based thing or chemical imbalance. The former counselling could really help , whereas the latter medication may be the best option.

The link was on the webpage, but it's here as you can't be bothered to read down www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3109/08039489309104119

Sorry new I think it was fruit who said about 'cells rembering'.

Pete, I don't know about you, but I feel that my mind i.e. mental processes etc. is me and it deeply distresses me, in a way that physical things don't, that things go wrong with it. Obviously everyone's perspective is different. To me, the things I did while either high or low were me doing it, and it's almost impossible for me to understand how I (my mind) could've been like that. You feel differently, which is obviously okay.

Not sure why the insulin analogy is considered so 'boring'

Because I've heard it about a thousand times and it gets tired.

sarcasm any chance that your onset of depression coincided with your periods starting?

You don't have to answer, but I am very interested in the correlation between hormones and depression.

Fruit I am really struggling to understand your posts. Several pps have said they would not be alive without ads. My life, if I still had one, would be wrecked. To be honest, whether they work for 10% or 90%, to those of us who have needed them and who they have helped, is not really the point. Shall we give up with cancer treatments too as not everyone is cured? Or shall we just carry on with the best treatment options we have until something better is found?

Do you understand how CCG funding works? You know that chemotherapy finding is denied if the treatment is ineffective?

The 60-70% efficacy for ADs has not been adjusted for publication bias. These great piece about research bias in ADs came out last month. http://www.nationalelfservice.net/mental-health/depression/in-praise-of-little-sponsorship-bias-in-depression-research/

Sorry pete i assumed you had linked to a book as it had google in the link so didn't bother opening it!

itCider

Or to put it another way:they work for 60-70% of people with clinical depression.

60-70% is very poor to be honest. Nowhere else in medicine would accept such shoddy statistics.

I think herceptin works as a chemotherapy agent in about 30% of patients (i coulld be wrong abou the exact stats as ive pulled that from memory) and it is considered a bloody effective cancer treatment!

I have had periodic depressions which have always taught me something important if I've been prepared to sit with them, and usually been lifted by chucking myself into cold seawater/ lots of exercise/ waiting it out while trying not to let my life implode

I have also had periodic depressions which have taught me something important, which is that when things are spiralling out of control and my life is threatening to collapse about me, it is best to accept the advice of my nearest and dearest, and GP and accept that I need medical help. And that this is not a sign of weakness but of strength in doing what is best for me and my family.

When I have been very depressed I have barely been able to look after my own family, never mind take "lots of exercise".

Could I gently suggest that anyone capable of thinking and exercising their way out of depression, may not have a full understanding of the severity of the illness others face?

Pete can i ask a pharmacology question? I am now on escitalopram rather than citalopram. I do experience fewer side effects and can take a lower dose 10mg instead of 40mg. As i understand it.citalopram is a racemic compound?

I couldn't read the pharmacology article on mt phone but i do find the fact that there are so many Ssri's interesting. Although my experience seems to be thst it depends what the drs drug of choice is.

My dr told me that citalopram is her go to Ad but that escitalopram is better indicated for anxiety. It is more expensive though.

Fruit Surprisingly enough, yes I do know that. Is there any need to patronise me? So are you suggesting that there are no cancer treatments which have a lower than 60-70% cure rate?

Escitalopram is citalopram slightly changed on a molecular level to make the dosing smaller. It was a ploy by marketing companies to create a new drug that was under patent so they could charge more money for it. Having said that, I have heard good things about it.

it is a state of illness that makes me unlike my normal self. Therefore it's been treated and now I'm back to normal

Well put. This is exactly how I feel about taking ads.

I think herceptin works as a chemotherapy agent in about 30% of patients (i coulld be wrong abou the exact stats as ive pulled that from memory) and it is considered a bloody effective cancer treatment!

Well yes, anything that increases the rate of survival in breast cancer mets by 20% would be considered amazing. www.cochrane.org/CD006242/BREASTCA_efficacy-and-safety-of-trastuzumab-in-metastatic-breast-cancer do you understand how hard mets cancer is to treat?!?!?

That doesn't answer my question. I am aware that citalopram exists as a racemic mixture. Escitalopram is exactly the same molecule however only one enantiomer is present in Escitalopram and i wondered about the relevance of this. It clearly changes the affinity for receptors but i just. wondered why yhis makes Escitalopram favourable for anxiety rather than both anxiety and depression. My chemistry is rusty. Hence asking the pharmacology question.

I think it definitely added to it Ma although I started at 10 things got a lot more intense from then on. Mum is convinced there is something endo chronological (if that's a word) going on.