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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To not know what to do now....toddler excluded from nursery.

78 replies

Shockedshell · 17/12/2016 13:26

My 2.5yr old grandson (he lives with me) is no longer welcome at his outstanding, award winning, inclusive nursery.
I know he is a challenging child and it's almost certain he has additional needs, though he does not have a diagnosis just yet, but their decision has upset me greatly and I can't work out how to move forward.
The nursery have told me they had reached crisis point and have run out of strategies to manage his behaviour however, the nursery's application for funding to provide some one to one support was turned down by the SEN Early Years Panel. They said he is simply displaying toddler behaviour but the nursery strongly disagrees with this.
The upshot is I need to find alternative childcare ASAP or give up work but who will want a child that has already been excluded from one nursery and I have no idea how we will cope financially without my wage. Right now I don't think I could actually put my trust in another nursery but I need to do something. How do I work out what?

OP posts:

insancerre · 17/12/2016 17:37

Are you able to pay someone yourself to provide 1-1 for him in nursery?
Or can you change your work days and take the place at the nursery offered?

CarrotVan · 17/12/2016 17:56

Are there any primary schools locally that specialise in EBD? If so they might have nursery provision, outreach programmes with nurseries, or a list of child minders who are experienced in EBD.

Boundaries · 17/12/2016 18:07

Sounds very difficult OP.

Is it likely that the circumstances which lead to him living with you are contributing to his distress? If he has experienced early trauma, then this needs dealing with first - PM me if you'd like some more info about this.

Practically speaking, if he is a LAC, the LA have a responsibility to support him. Social worker is the first port of call, then the team manager. Funding is stretched, but the right support now could make all the difference in the future, both financially and in terms of his life chances.

Aeroflotgirl · 17/12/2016 18:12

There are specialist school dealing with EBD. Usually the child needs an EHCP and it needs to go to a specialist schools panel.

hotdiggedy · 17/12/2016 20:58

Someone earlier suggested trying a school/council run nursery. I can assure you that they wont have money lying around to fund 1:1 just like that. There will be a very long wait until an Ed Psych comes in to look at him then another long wait until a decision is made. Cuts are being made and they are very reluctant to give one to one funding out. Schools end up having to suck it up and have someone running around after the child as well as having their own number of children to look after. It could quite easily be well into reception by the time he gets any funding.

DeepanKrispanEven · 17/12/2016 22:21

It's rare for a child this age to go to an EBD school, and they certainly wouldn't get in without an EHCP. But anyway it would be dangerous to assume this is purely EBD - if, for instance, it's down to childhood trauma, sensory issues or something like ASD, an EBD school would be potentially harmful.

So far as funding is concerned, if he gets an EHCP it will bring funding with it for whatever support he needs, provided of course that the LA organises a full assessment.

strawberrypenguin · 17/12/2016 22:27

Sounds tough OP but are you perhaps minimising his behaviour because you are used to it? It must be pretty bad for the nursery to have to admit they can't cope with him. It's horrible for you but if they genuinely feel like that they have done the best thing for your gs and the other children they care for. Sounds like he does need 1:1 care and most nursery are not equipped for that

Blueemeraldagain · 17/12/2016 22:59

I work in an SEMH school (what used to be EBD). We have plenty of students who are in care or who are fundamentally disturbed due to their experiences pre 5 years old.
It is rare for any student to go to an SEMH secondary school and it gets rarer to the younger the student is but it happens all the way down to 4 years old. But you need a lot of paper work to back you up (the irrefutable/undissmissable stuff).

SherbrookeFosterer · 18/12/2016 18:18

The child needs a nanny.

Choose an older woman with years of experience, not a young girl.

Also think about the child's diet. Diet is the root of so many behaviour problems; and not just among children.

Pippinsisgr8 · 18/12/2016 18:19

When I managed a preschool we had a similar situation where a child's behaviour was challenging, parents were becoming concerned, and we were under pressure to exclude the child and we were almost at breaking point. We contacted the local authority. The threat of exclusion made things happen quite quickly. We bypassed procedures, got support from Portage who came in to the setting to gave us very useful strategies to manage the child's behaviour. I am afraid we did not get funding but funded one to one support observes. We were a registered charity. When your grandson was refused funding the nursery could have said the child is at risk of exclusion, is this a cry for help? I would suggest you contact your local authority to explain what has happened and ask them to intervene, start with the Family Information Service, they should be able to signpost you to the relevant person. As a childminder now I would agree with trying to find a suitably qualified childminder, you would be amazed at how qualified, experienced and compassionate we are too.

Shona52 · 18/12/2016 18:48

Speak to your health visitor. They have so many useful contacts. You might need social services to step in and help. You really need a diagnosis to gain access to any support so push with your doctor for a referral to a psychiatrist. But keep pushing for help!

caringcarer · 18/12/2016 18:49

As a lac child you should get an allowance for caring for child but your la sw can get extra funding for a child with complex needs. This may allow you to Sah with him or pay for Sen childcare. Also lasw can get child access to camh service and specialist counselling through play therapy. Ask lase for support as they have duty of care for child. Hope you get support you need.

AnnabelC · 18/12/2016 18:53

What about his mum and dad and other grandparents. Can they help? Aunts and uncles. Where are the extended family when you need them!

hazeyjane · 18/12/2016 19:06

Today 18:18 SherbrookeFosterer

The child needs a nanny.

Choose an older woman with years of experience, not a young girl.

Also think about the child's diet. Diet is the root of so many behaviour problems; and not just among children

The child needs 1-1 support from people who can work with the family and outside professionals who can work out strategies that will help with behaviour. The op needs a setting who will help her work through a complicated system to garner the correct support in the future. A nanny with experience and knowledge of special needs, and how to navigate the system, might be good (whether old or young) - but such nannies are rarer than hens teeth. A specialist nursery or ms nursery with support can work well with the right 1-1 support. There is no reason this child shouldn't be able to access an early years setting.

The bit about food and behaviour is hooey.

Waterlemon · 18/12/2016 19:11

Do you have any local authority owned or school nurseries near you that take 2 year olds?

They may be more supportive and have more resources to hand than a private setting, as they are able to utilise staff/resources from elsewhere in the school/setting.

I also think as a lac, the lea should be helping you to sort this out.

BillyShingles · 18/12/2016 19:29

First things first, try some other nurseries. Don't write them all off because one couldn't cope. Outstanding status, SEN brags or not, some settings are better at managing certain behaviours than others.

Absolutely do the other stuff mentioned here in escalating the issue AS WELL but in the meantime visit every nursery and preschool in the area, talk about your DGS with them. There may be one that is a much better fit, where he can cope with them better and they can cope with him. They do vary in philosophies and it can come down to the individual. We"ve had DS in settings where they get him, he's calm, they say he's lovely, and others with just as good credentials where there's been a huge clash, he's been stressed and very difficult.

TipperarygirlinLondon · 18/12/2016 21:00

Your local council should have a department that supports/oversees the childcare provision in your area. That would be a good place to ask for support. Good luck.

Fluffy36 · 18/12/2016 21:13

I'm sure the setting and outside agency is in breach of the disability act. I'd ask OFSTED to inspect, speak to IPSEA (who give free advice) and find out if there is a local parent partner.
So sorry to hear about the lack of support. Keep fighting! X

Fluffy36 · 18/12/2016 21:15

Go to IPSEA first. Their contact details are online. They are very good.

LanaorAna1 · 18/12/2016 21:26

Use a specialist nursery. And cheer up, the earlier you get help the better your chances of finding something that works for you both.

dogletsrock · 18/12/2016 21:29

Do you have a school nursery near you? They may have staff who have more experience. The school I work at have a number of very challenging children in the nursery and they have the experience to cope.

Is there anyone who can help you lodge an appeal at the SEN panel. The SEN panel often look at the money side and will often back down if you fight. I don't know where you live but I know of specialist solicitors who will help you. Looked after children have special needs and rights.

The system is shitty and unfortunately the people who are able to shout the loudest will get heard. If I can help you in any way I will, just let me know.xxx

ChishandFips33 · 18/12/2016 21:59

Is he entitled to the two year old funding with being a looked after child?
Could the SS money currently used to fund his place be then used for the additional support?

Have you spoken to your local authority's Sen team?

Hope you get sorted with something soon, you don't need this additional stress

sj257 · 18/12/2016 22:14

Do you have a state funded nursery school in your area?

flyhigh · 18/12/2016 22:26

As your grandson is a LAC then your LA may (should) have some foster carers that are able to offer day care while you go to work.
Ask your social worker to contact the fostering duty team to see if there is help available via this route.

Sundayafternoonblues · 18/12/2016 23:47

OP, have you tried contacting your MP? Some MPs are more helpful than others, but sometimes a letter from an MP may prompt things to get referred up and dealt with. (I am thinking in particular of your social worker who doesn't know what to do.)

If you don't know who your local MP is, you can use this website to find out
www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/mps/

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