Why do some nursery staff insist on overhelping children with their craft?

[Soubriquet]

3 year old dd broke up from nursery yesterday and came away with a little Christmas bag full of the Christmas activities that they did

It is 100% obvious it isn't her work

It looks like they've applied the glue for her to stick or things like that

Even her name where they have to trace the dots looks like someone has helped her.

I know that because at home, when she tries, she can't do it.

I would rather have messy wonky looking crafts that are done by her, then decent looking things that have had a lot of intervention.

I thought this was frowned upon now in pre-schools and nurseries?

Having read the comments, I am a bit
By the way OP your daughters pencil skills are not behind. She's 3, it will come with time. Wait until she has compulsory school before you start worrying. My daughter is also three and lacking severely in that department. I'm not worried. She's amazing in other aspects of her development.
By the way I have a degree and I am level 6 qualified. And I always find I have to justify what I do

I'm a Nursery teacher and completely agree with the OP. The children are supposed to be experimenting and learning through ay. They have a very different idea of what looks good to an adult and are often v proud if the most hilarious looking creations! In our nursery, and most others that I know, the children might be provided with a reindeer bag, nose, antlers, glue etc and then encouraged to make it their own way. Support given if asked for but not told where to stick pieces,although sometimes we might make one up first to give an idea of a finished product. The rules can be very funny but adorable, and also give good information as to a child's developmental stage.
Also the usual thing for naming work round here is for children to select a ready made sticker with their name on (our nursery has a folder with sheets of stickers for each child). In this way they are developing independence, creativity and learning to recognise their name. This is much more important than writing their name at 3. Most children haven't developed the fine motor skills to manage this yet.

Should say "learning through play"

And results not rules. Sorry I should have previewed before posting.

And results not rules. Sorry!

It is not good practice to DO children's craft work for them.

Sorry didn't mean to capitalise "do"!

Another EY teacher here (currently working in a private day nursery), the nursery stuff are definitely BU.

I'm surprised the manager lets them be so involved with the crafts, ours is insistent that the babies and children should be free to create whatever the hell they want! Unfortunately the pp are right, lots of parents do want perfect art work, not haphazard, wonky kids creations (although I'd argue the children's own work IS art!!)

Definitely mention it to the nursery, a decent nursery gives children space to experiment and create so it would be interesting to see what their response is when challenged!

BTW your daughter absolutely does not sounds as though she's behind, please try not to worry

YANBU. Kids should be allowed to craft however they like (within the exception of sticking glitter up their own noses etc.). It's supposed to be a creative activity not an exercise in copying or doing whatever the staff want them to. DS's nursery is very hot on this so I'm with you 100% OP.

Surely not putting enough glue on and a bit falling off is a learning experience? And one that the child is being deprived of if the staff stick bits back on.

One of my biggest bug bares is when a child's work is over shadowed by what the adult thinks it should look like. "Helping" them to do it correctly I work in the childcare sector and children's work should be exactly that...... Their work ! It's ok to give pointers but actually doing it for them is not acceptable. I totally agree that this is probably not your child's work and as for tracing dots hasn't that been wiped out with the dinosaurs

I agree with the OP.

I decided against sending my first DC to one nursery as when being shown around the art class consisted of 2-3 year old sitting at a table of 6 with nothing in front of them. There was one easel among six and in turn they would go up to it and with the nursery worker's guidance do a few strokes and sit back down - with nothing to do while the other five on the table were doing their picture! After each turn hands were wiped. They already had plastic overalls on covering them neck to knee with sleeves too. It was the most sterile place. In each room there were two nursery workers talking to each other and there would be one selection of toys - e.g. when we were there plastic fruit. That's what they would have to play with for half an hour or whatever.

The one he ended up in was the type of place you'd take him home and give him a bath and see green paint in between his toes and in his toe nails - much preferred it. Four large rooms were accessible to all each with different activities. The nursery workers stayed put in the rooms and kids would move about as they wanted. Loved the place.

I completely agree, OP.

Surprised I do actually, my son isn't old enough for crafts yet but when I make things with my nieces I have to sit on my hands to stop myself interfering (it's the perfectionist in me).

I completely agree with you. It happens at all ages and it's quite unhrkpful. DD9 Xisco enthusiastic but not blessed with natural artistic ability and refused to have her school Christmas card printed as the art teacher intervened too much. She didn't feel that it was hers- I thought she was rightly cross.

I have two dcs.

One at aged3 had no interest in writing his name. We focussed on his gross motor skills e.g through playdoh then Lego and has loads of pens and pencils freely available.
My second aged 3 could write just after turning 3.

We did not encourage tracing around dots - crazy idea. She went to Montessori preschool who encouraged tracing sand paper letters first with a finger before eventhinking of using a pencil.

As for arts and craft - the preschool workers did a bit of helping but the kids were obviously doing most of it.

If you don't like the nursery then move her.

My three year old would rather run around with her best friend, playing in the playhouse, going shopping in the grocery store with the play trolley and coming back to make the toy dinsosaurs dinner. Or sand and water table. Try to sit her at a Christmas activity, unless it involves cookie cutters, it's her way or no way. Mine has only just turned three and cannot writte her name with or without dots, it's not uncommon they need guidance, unless you know she can do this unaided at home.

We didn't get any Christmas crafts from nursery, besides baked shortbread decorations and she adores cooking at nursery so I was more than happy. Much rather that than force her to sit and paint when she doesn't want to.

When I worked at a primary school that catered for preschool, we were not allowed to do themed event type crafts or pictures. I remember drawing reindeer for lots of four year olds (reception) to colour at Christmas because they asked me to help draw an outline of a reindeer and then they all wanted one, the school disapproved. Sometimes you cant do right for doing wrong.

I find this so frustrating.
I understand that arts and crafts are a tricky activity to manage on a large scale (cm here, used to be a nursery owner) and it's often easier to intervene than to have glitter everywhere, glue in all places, and children's clothes covered in paint, chalk, felt tips pens and so on.

However, there is absolutely no point in putting an activity out if you will not let a child do it themselves. That doesn't mean that the staff should turn their backs and have a chat, but it does mean they need to take a step back and let children make their own marks.

YANBU at all!

"Make marks"

Pathetic! What's wrong with just letting them draw, paint or stick?

Maybe the aim of the exercise was not the obvious i.e. Not so much Pencil skills but rather other things like sharing equipment or them "helping" the nursery nurse make things etc.
IMO Yabu to be bothered by this unless it's a regular thing and you feel theyre inhibiting her progress. If it's just a one off I think you are over analysing things somewhat.

I used to work in a private nursery and I will admit at Xmas time and mothers/father any special occasion we did help the children a little but just helped. the reason we did help only on these special occasions was simply because we made sure every child had whatever it was we were making for that special occasion had something to go home to. we would sit with a group of 3 children to do the activities therefore some did require help just so we knew that every child had something to take home with them. but any other art and craft activities done on a daily basis was purely the child on art work unless of course they asked for help.

*"Make marks"

Pathetic! What's wrong with just letting them draw, paint or stick?*
It's a term used by teachers and others trained in EYFS. Meaning making any kind of marks using any materials (paint, pencils etc. but also sand, mud, snow, gloop and so on) rather than 'drawing' and 'writing' which imply a specific, pre-planned end result. It's important to practise the fine motor skills and control and also to develop the skill of intentionally make shapes before learning to 'write' as such.

Could the tree have been done with a roller or printing? I know my dd can be quite neat with a roller but paintbrush is much harder. It's possible a trainee has done it with her? I know the trainee girls at my dds first nursery were always doing things like this until they learnt more about development. Ours do a mixture of structured and free style crafts I think dd does the vast majority of her own work but there are times I can see a helping hand has been involved. I do a mixture with her at home too. If it's something that is important to you have a chat about it with them :) xxx

Are you saying that if you help kids at this age then they won't be able to stick stuff down at year 6 independently?

They'll likely be able to do it well before year 6 regardless. But overhelping does slow development and anyone who has studied child development should know that. Much more encouraging for a child to cut out their own wonky circle and it be seen as good enough rather than have a teacher take the card and scissors off them so they can cut a perfect circle out for them. The first example encourages children to have a go, practice and improve whereas the second one encourages kids to ask an adult to do things for them as they 'can't do it'.