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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be annoyed that private schools have charity funding.

665 replies

Olympiathequeen · 15/12/2016 10:14

They are not charities, they are businesses.

They do little or nothing for the local community.

They benefit by about £750 mil. They part fund bursaries for around half that amount.

Leaving them with a tidy little £300+ million profit at the expense of the taxpayers.

That money is desperately needed for public schools.

WTAF is the government doing?

OP posts:
ViewBasket · 15/12/2016 22:04

If one family chooses to forgo expensive holidays, extravagant home/car etc. so that they can send their children to a fee paying school, why should that be a problem for anyone else?

Because most people don't have the luxury option of "foregoing" expensive holidays, extravagant homes and cars, and school fees would total more than their household income? And their children deserve a great education too.

iamadaftcoo · 15/12/2016 22:06

Yy view

Backingvocals · 15/12/2016 22:08

Frankly I'm quite happy that most of the cabinet and shadow cabinet are well educated - private education is not just for Tories! I would be very unhappy (as would you undoubtedly) to have someone from my local average comprehensive as chancellor / foreign sec etc

I know. Democracy and meritocracy is just such a drag isnt it Angry. I've rarely read a stupider sentence.

TrojanWhore · 15/12/2016 22:10

Yes, it does seem that only the very rich and the very poor can afford private schools these days (exceptions: employer picking up the tab, or grandparents/inheritance funding it).

It's the middle that is squeezed out. Too affluent to get a bursary, but not enough to afford fees and everything else they wish to pay for.

BertrandRussell · 15/12/2016 22:13

"It's the middle that is squeezed out."

How utterly ghastly for them.........

Out2pasture · 15/12/2016 22:16

OP what a daft comment to make....
Charitable status is in reference to taxation status not the act of being charitable.
Regardless of the money invested into private or non private education, education of your fellow citizens is a direct benefit to you.

iamadaftcoo · 15/12/2016 22:19

education of your fellow citizens is a direct benefit to you.

Confused
Suppermummy02 · 15/12/2016 22:24

a good solution might be to stop academic selection in these private schools. let them deal with all the rich idiots as well.

ReallyTired · 15/12/2016 22:32

"a good solution might be to stop academic selection in these private schools. let them deal with all the rich idiots as well."

Private schools are extremely varied. Do you really expect the Royal Ballet School or a specialist music school to stop being selective over who they train? Should a private school that specialises looking after profoundly autistic children be expected to admit NT children?

This thread smacks of jealousy. People seem to think just because their child can't attend a top private school no child should.

Backingvocals · 15/12/2016 22:36

I could well afford for my children to go to private school. They may do one day. I just object to the fundraising for private schools being given charitable status and getting tax relief that I pay for. Those who provide bursaries might just about have an argument but every penny of that charitable money would need to be spent on that to make it ok.

Jealous? No I'm not 12. Hmm

Dapplegrey1 · 15/12/2016 22:48

Suppermummy - according to iamadaftcoo these rich idiots still manage to get to top universities so this scheme of your might not work.

mumoftwoboysandhusband · 15/12/2016 23:03

I have said charity status throughout. I've not said charity funded

mumoftwoboysandhusband · 15/12/2016 23:04

^^ apart from the TITLE OF THE THREAD??

celtiethree · 15/12/2016 23:11

yes the rich idiots still get to uni (relatively), there is no other way of accounting for why some universities have 35-40% private vs. State. When there is so many more state pupils vs. private. Unless you believe that those at private are actually on the whole more intelligent than state pupils.

Headofthehive55 · 15/12/2016 23:41

Are there not more charities which have education / development as an aim, yet people pay subs to join? Girl guides for example.

How about tax relief on musical instruments? (Lots of councils run this - you don't pay VAT on say a flute as you are learning through school)

What about c of E schools? Is the church a charity?

It does seem to be entirely vitriolic.

surreygoldfish · 15/12/2016 23:51

This thread smacks of jealousy. People seem to think just because their child can't attend a top private school no child should.

^^This.....it's like a race to the bottom....

I came from a single parent family. Lucky enough to gain an Assisted Place in the '80s. Fully funded and on free school meals, travel and uniform allowance when I joined. Local state options at the time were very average. Roll on a number (a Iot of years) and we send 3 DC to private school,both work very hard and net contributors in terms of tax. I appreciate that this kind of social mobility only works for the few but it can work. Whilst DC at private school benefit from smaller classes and I'm not denying it's a privileged experience etc etc they do actually still need to work ..... no one gives them their GCSE or A level results. I've seen far less spoon feeding at DC school.
As to who governs us.....I don't care whether we have state or privately educated people in government but I do care whether or not they are educated!!

gillybeanz · 16/12/2016 00:08

Without the charitable status of my dd school, it would close or become really elite and very few dc who were talented would be able to afford to go.
It would become the privilege of the rich and closed to wc/ low income families.
You can't close one charitable school on principle and not close others.
Some charitable status schools give less well off children a chance to reach their potential.
I can't thank the tax payer enough and neither can my dd and some of her friends.
They work extremely hard, striving to be the best they can. They aren't stupid and know how much the fees are and how lucky they are.

BadKnee · 16/12/2016 00:08

They just don't pay tax which is fair. Every child has a right to education.

The taxpayer would have to pay far more and all the children would get far less if there were no more private schools.

The parents who pay for their kids education are paying tax.

It is perfectly reasonable that the schools should get tax relief on their profits. Alternatively they could get the estate to pay for the education of every child. It would be a lot more expensive

MistresssIggi · 16/12/2016 00:49

As a teacher d be very happy if all the children attending private schools where I live were instead spread out over the state schools. I'm sure it would require expansion in the state school system but we'd have lots of parents willing to fund extra resources for a start. I see no need for fee paying schools.

childmaintenanceserviceinquiry · 16/12/2016 01:10

Havent read the thread. My DC goes to a specialist school due to SEN. Couldnt be supported properly in the state primary system (county and area with excellent schools - sorry by excellent I mean for children without SEN). Perhaps can be now in the state secondary system.

There is no academic excellence at my DC school. In fact many of the students cannot even achieve GCSE.

So charitable status - yes the school has it. Should they? Yes probably. They provide a worthy service. Approx 40% of pupils have SSEN or EHCP.

iamadaftcoo · 16/12/2016 02:27

This thread smacks of jealousy. People seem to think just because their child can't attend a top private school no child should.

Ah yes, I was wondering how long before someone called jealousy. Or "chip on shoulder".

As it happens, yes I do have an enormous chip on my shoulder wrt private education for all the reasons I have already stated.

However, no I am not jealous. DH and I could afford to send our dc to private school. We choose not to.

KeyserSophie · 16/12/2016 06:28

but we'd have lots of parents willing to fund extra resources for a start

Be careful what you wish for. "Engaged" parents might end up being a monkey on your back and spend their whole time campaigning to get rid of all the "difficult" children. And certainly no guarantee of money without significant input I would think.

Headofthehive55 · 16/12/2016 06:33

The I would argue you have to close gift aid (a way if claiming your tax back) which helps an awful lot of charities, including the national trust. I'm not sure why private schools are particularly singled out.

Why is an educational charity less deserving than a charity preserving houses, or looking after the sick?

Headofthehive55 · 16/12/2016 06:42

iamdaft I don't think you can complain about the school if you admit on merit.

I think there is a different demographic at some private schools compared to state. There is a different demographic in some state too.

What I have found though the school itself didn't seem to make a difference. The children who went off to Oxbridge generally had parents who had done so, and the children whose parents went to a RG did the same. Those children whose parents didn't attend uni seemed to do the same. Hugely striking. It happened at the comps too.

ivykaty44 · 16/12/2016 07:00

Dd2 has used the facilities at two public schools, the facilities are rented - byt for a relatively small cost. Both schools had great sports facilities which are used by the wider communities both adults and children, either as indervidual use or clubs.

There is no way the local councils would provide more sports facilities which would be needed and if the schools don't have charity status technicaly they wouldn't have to offer them as they don't make a profit from offering these facilities for renting.