To be annoyed that private schools have charity funding.

[Olympiathequeen]

They are not charities, they are businesses.

They do little or nothing for the local community.

They benefit by about £750 mil. They part fund bursaries for around half that amount.

Leaving them with a tidy little £300+ million profit at the expense of the taxpayers.

That money is desperately needed for public schools.

WTAF is the government doing?

YABU

I work at an independent school that has charitable status, and works hard to keep it.

it offers up to 100% means-tested discount on fees for local children who might not otherwise get a decent education. There are approximately 20% of students on some form of bursary.

All 120+ sixth former's do volunteer work for approx 2hrs each week in the local community, including primary schools, care homes, uniformed groups.

The school raises money for 6 local charities through out the year.

They host events for the community free of charge, such as carol services, plays, afternoon teas, concerts etc

They go to local centres, churches, care homes and put on free concerts.

Stuff that directly benefits local state schools:

Free use of swimming pool
Free use of a first class 250+ state of the art theatre for productions
Free use of sports fields and tennis courts for sports days tournaments etc
Free theatre, music and Art workshop days
Free tickets to matinee performances of school plays.
Donate sports, music, Art and IT equipment to local schools (as well as charities and organisations)
Staff and Student volunteers in primary schools (reading groups, after school clubs etc)

What else do you think they should or could do - are they not doing enough to help local state schools?

I have said charity status throughout. I've not said charity funded.

It isn't just a matter of how much money will be saved for each pupil it's still money that could be spent better spent rather than on a bogus charity status.

I know several parent paying privately and they are not wealthy land owning aristos! What a ridiculous outdated statement!

"Where I live they are more accessible than the local state schools where you can't get a place unless you pay for a house I couldn't afford in the one or two very select streets near the school."

Are there loads of children not in school, then? The ones who can't afford either fees or expensive houses?

A lot of you seem to be confused between a PRIVATE school and an PUBLIC school

Private: Funded by fees and donors, is there to make money and profits (eg a language school) for the proprieters
Public: Funded by fees and donors but it not there to make a profit. All money goes back into the development of the school

They remove 625,000 children from state education, which saves about £5,500 per pupil per year, which is something (though not £750m worth

At significant cost to intangibles like social mobility. I think it's a stretch to argue that private education is a public good.

Yes it's outrageous. A work colleague sits on the Eton fundraising board. It makes me murderous. They have a few boys on bursaries and the rest goes on ever more lavish facilities for the country's most privileged.

YANBU.
It's a fucking disgrace.

Your thread title:
"private schools have charity funding"

Your initial post says Charity Funding. The government isn’t giving them money, they just benefit on the reduced tax they pay. But they do actually pay tax which means that they will be benefiting state education by paying into the government coffers. They also keep many teachers in work - more than the state system given the smaller class sizes.

Yes, so the non existent 'profit' is ploughed back into the school to improve the education of the few at the expense of the many.

That makes the reduction of funds for the treasury and improvements to schools in deprived areas ok then [confised]

Parents that pay school fees also mostly pay taxes. Many of them are actually net-contributors (some by a long way!) so are already paying for state schools. £600 on fees p.a. can be absorbed by some, others will leave and put further pressure on the state sector.
We couldn't afford £700k for a house in catchment for a good school, so £180k fees seems a bargain.

As a family who works hard to pay private school fees (because we're in a Borough with far too few school places, even at Primary level, and we live in a black hole so were not offered any school at all on offers day and would eventually have been sent to a failing school at the other end of the Borough, or even a neighbouring one) I don't resent the fact that our taxes are help fund state schools even though our children don't get a penny of taxpayers' money spent on their education. I do, however, resent attitudes like the OPs.

Fortunately, as much as I hate the Tories and the mess they've put us in, this is one area they're not likely to mess with!

Not arguing the pros and cons of public school and I wouldn't send my DS there but Eton has 21% of pupils on bursaries with a stated aim of 25%. 70 pupils pay no fees and all - more than a 'few'

There are hundred of thousands of charities, a fair proportion of which benefit the public very little. Private schools would be well down the list of the ones I would have a pop at, tbh....

Yes. It's utterly outrageous.

I agree - and my children go to a private school. But then I think private schools are actually the tip of the iceberg - the whole notion of what counts as a charity needs to be radically overhauled.

The schools have charity status not charity funding.
our school allows weekend use of facilities and provides a few bursaries plus does a fair bit of charity fundraising.
I agree it isn't great PR. But it is a legal term rather than anything else.

If they lose charitable status it is not simply a case of fees going up. They would have to close and any assets be donated to a charity with similar charitable objectives (ie. an education charity).

There is no way to opt out of being a charity and becoming a private entity.

Private schools do not have any charitable funding merely a charitable status and many do give back to the community they are in.

I'm confused on VAT because my understanding is that providing the entity has an asset lock on it (i.e. no shareholders, all profits ploughed back in), even if it doesnt have charitable status it would still be VAT exempt. Nearly all independent schools in the UK have this structure.

i.e. you can be a non-profit organisation/ company without being a charity. Just need to register as limited by guarantee.

Olympia, I can see the different views morally. But you are arguing an economic case. Making private education more expensive would mean fewer children in private education and more in state education. It is not a given at all that the money saved in removing the tax benefits of private schools would result in a net gain for the treasury.

I'm arguing a moral case. They are not charities so should not receive charity status and tax relief. It's the absurdity of the most privilege form of education in the country being classed as a charity.

how do you define a charity?

Then you should remove that status from most 'charities' too.
People give money to charities like lepra, who then fund research into curing/eradicating leprosy. Those research/drug companies take that money, but still own all intellectual rights to the drugs developed, and then proceed to sell them at a huge profit.
How is that charitable?
Cancer charities are the same. They won't own the cures. Drug companies will.

"Private schools do not have any charitable funding merely a charitable status and many do give back to the community they are in."

Well, they do receive the advantages when it comes to taxation and funding that charities receive. And I have yet to come across one that gives to their community in a robust, accountable manner. Not to say none do. But I haven't come across one. And the charity commission wasn't hugely impressed last time I looked, either.

FWiW I find it ridiculous that, eg, the Queen and Duke of Westminster benefit from CAP payouts that were supposed to assist indigent French farmers with smallholdings. But I don't stay awake at night worrying about it....

How do you find out what these schools offer to the local community? Do they publish a useful list similar to what PP 00100001 has given us?