To be annoyed that private schools have charity funding.

[Olympiathequeen]

They are not charities, they are businesses.

They do little or nothing for the local community.

They benefit by about £750 mil. They part fund bursaries for around half that amount.

Leaving them with a tidy little £300+ million profit at the expense of the taxpayers.

That money is desperately needed for public schools.

WTAF is the government doing?

It's us citizens versus our those who should be accountable for education provision. Its not state versus private.

How is the government going to help when their own education minister is privately educated?

That's a good question. One that I'd like to see more threads on, this is the question we should be frothing about. Just because there are no answers forthcoming yet doesn't mean we should stop asking the people who should be accountable.

So long as private schools are meeting their objects, and operating within Charities Comission regulations, they are free to continue running.

otherpeople I found the c/d GCSE very negotiable this summer. It didn't matter that much actually. You just started on a lower level at college. Some apprenticeships would take a d some wanted a c. Very variable.
Very different to the UCAS experience!

Someone - anyone out there - please prove me wrong and show me that the UK isn't the only place in the world where this sort of thing happens.

Ok. I'm an immigrant who was privately educated in my home country, where private education makes up between a quarter and a third of school places, so much more prevalent than here.

I was bullied in two different jobs in my late teens / early to mid 20s by my coworkers because I'd been to private school.

Funny how it always seems more important for clever children to "reach their potential" while c/d borderlines can "just start at a lower level in college"

There will never not be a need for private education no matter how good state schools might be, as there will always be a need for "your" child to get that extra special standard of education they deserve, and to ensure they only mix with the right people - the ones they want to mix with in the boardroom and golf course in later life.
If state schools were all wonderful there would be some (perhaps many) parents who currently pay who would stop doing so. It would never be everyone however as private education is not simply about getting the best exam results for the child.

But it did not stop her reaching her potential. She still could do the exact qualification. She was able to resit maths / English as necessary in the same year. It made much less difference. And would enter the same career as planned.

Whereas failing to get into medical / vet school etc actually stops you doing that career there and then. Lots don't accept resit grades.

Not getting A*s at GCSE doesn't close any doors. Ecxept possibly certain courses at Oxford. Not getting Cs at GCSE closes loads and loads of doors.

Clever children may do well. But do they reach their potential? Are you saying that their sacrifice is worth it?

Totally agree with this. and in some schools they might not do very well at all. the sort of school that I went to would have the clever child dumbing themselves down to fit in and avoid being bullied.

Of course not getting A has the potential to close some doors. The most oversubscribed courses can choose straight A students so failing to get that will close those doors. But failing to get C's at GCSE can also close doors and cause endless resits.

I'll repeat again, this is the wrong debate to be having. BOTH are equally important.

This really is all about class isn't it. Keeping the elites away from the plebs.

I'll repeat again, this is the wrong debate to be having. BOTH are equally important."

No they aren't. In practically all circumstances, getting a C rather than a D is more important than getting an A rather than an A*.

Well they haven't managed to keep my pleb away from the elites

How about a B to an A at A level v E to a D at GCSE?
What difference does that make?
My point is there are crunch points, so raising the average attainment may actually not be as beneficial as you think.
Raising all the Es to DS but dropping all the As to Bs may not give as good an outcome.

A-levels are different. They are not a universal qualification required for practically everything in the way GCSEs are.

Es to DS at GCSE and sacrificing your As to Bs. At GCSE? That's what I meant.

Agree with Bertrand that the difference between c/d is more important than a/a*, because d is a fail grade, so doors are closed there.

However, once you start talking KS5 and beyond, most reputable institutions advise against c grade students progressing to A level, simply because the standard and expectations are set so much higher; they want to see a b minimum. At UCAS, the same filtration process operates, but at a higher threshold.

I think the suggestion that this is a class issue is frankly rather a distraction. Plenty of folk without money want to see their able children do better than they did... it's the American Dream that has driven generations of immigrants to take a skid on a new country that might be better. Unfortunately there are also lots of people telling their kids, "if it was good enough for me, it should be good enough for you". Not in a globally transparent world it won't be.

In practically all circumstances, getting a C rather than a D is more important than getting an A rather than an A*.

I don't know what circumstances you speak of. But from the example given above about entering for courses like Medicine, Dentistry etc that is NOT the case. Who knows wether this could be the person who will find the breakthrough for Cancer or it could equally be the next inventor of X. There are too many unknown factors at play.

I find comparing the value of human beings based on academic ability or attainment abhorrent and dangerous, unethical even. Once we start analysing who will least be affected' by a setback ,it's a very slippery slope.

Just to add, the argument about plebs v elite is a rather weak and tired one. I am not originally from the U.K, I can assure you the poorest are the fiercest and most aspirational. Why? They don't want their children to go through what they went through, to have the rotten life they've had.

That's why immigrants do better in the U.K

Don't get the fixation with medical and related professions: society needs motivated able people with very different skill sets. A great plasterer is a valuable person, even though he may not save your life, and is likely to be able to pick and choose the work he or she does, and where.

Exactly. That's why I brought it up, as so often, and it was mentioned up thread that teaching mixed ability helped to raise attainment apart from the brighter . It's often stated that they will do well wherever as if they don't really count and they don't matter.

OC I don't think people are fixated with medical professions, but they are hard to get into and lots of people want to do them.
You want to do what you want to do I guess.

Aspirational ambitious aggressive people do well, and so do their children in general. Not every school needs to model itself on Eton to be good, but every school needs to want all their students to achieve as fully as their talents permit. Otherwise it's failing. Mixed ability teaching has its place as does selection. Horses for courses.

"That's why immigrants do better in the U.K"

No. immigrants do well because if you are the sort of person who will uproot yourself and strike off into the unknown in search of a better life, you are also at certainly the sort of person who will support and nurture your children to do the best they can at school.

No doubt the idea that getting students from D to C at GCSE is more important than getting students from A to A is part of the reason why some parents favour selective schools (private or grammar). An academically selective school will be trying to get as many students as possible to A/A as their students have been selected based on ability so should be capable of getting top grades. They don't have to concentrate their efforts on getting children to scrape a C whilst letting the most able students coast along not reaching their potential.
Every child should be able to reach his full potential regardless of where he goes to school but whilst league tables obsess over C grades teaching efforts will remain focused on getting as many students as possible to that benchmark.