Fuming that they are talking of taking away pensioner bus passes and the triple lock

[jdoe8]

I'm still 40 years before I will get these, but I think we need to fight to keep these for future generations.

For many people they will have left school at 16 and worked until they were 65. Now after all those years of paying their taxes they aren't getting much back so the very least we need to do is allow them to travel and guarantee that their income will rise every year.

I was born in 1953 so I suppose I am a "baby boomer"; we're not all rolling in money!
I had to stop work in my 50s due to ill- health, and now at 63 and not due to get my State pension for some time yet, I am hugely grateful for my over 60's Oyster.

When I do get my State pension it will be nothing like the full amount as I wasn't able to contribute for enough years.
Please don't tar all "boomers" with the same brush.

Means testing:

• costs money to administer, so doesn't save as much money as you think it will;

• puts people off applying for the pass, so some people will carry on driving long past the time when they should have stopped;

• introduces an element of shame, which means many of the poorest won't even try to get passes at all, and their lives (inc ability to attend medical appointments, shops, etc) will be restricted as they won't be able to travel.

Not every pensioner has a lot of money.
But not every pensioners is skint either.
Actually statistically, pensioners are much more well off that people currently working.

I personally think that the help such as the bus passes, should be linked with income. And free medicines etc...
The triple lock is a harder one because yes it is important to protect the pensions. But then wages aren't triple locked at all and haven't gone up in the same way that pensions have. That means both that the pensioners are getting better off compare to workers and that itnwill very soon became completely unsustainable, hence the 'you can't be retired until you are 65, then 70, then what 75?yo'. This would very unfair to the younger generation who is currently paying said pensions but will be faced with longer and longer working life's (whilst their own life expectancy is going down)

Arf I know you're feeling a bit hard done to because so many people have dived on a little slip, but it does matter that we don't talk of it as prepaid. Thinking of it as prepaid and 'their money' is why so many pensioners won't think of themselves as receiving benefits, and so why they will happily vote for austerity and the cutting of 'benefits' for other people. I honestly believe the political landscape would be different if more pensioners recognised themselves as beneficiaries of the welfare state.

We all know how the system works

The problem is that a lot of people don't. I've come across many people who genuinely believe that their NI contributions are building up a personal fund which is used for their pension. It comes as a huge shock to them when it is explained that the government uses their NI contributions to fund current spending and that there is no pension fund.

Off-peak bus passes should be free because they encourage people to remain mobile, socialise, keep bus services running in off peak times.
Television licences and heating bills should not be subsidised because we ought to be encouraging communal living to share costs and to reduce loneliness.

Bus passes provide an easy face-saving way to give up driving.

People with plenty money who drive rarely use them (thankfully they have stopped free park and ride here for pensioners )

It probably saves many accidents.

introduces an element of shame, which means many of the poorest won't even try to get passes at all

Hasn't this been repeatedly shown to be a myth? Or if it ever did exist, it was something of the pre-war, pre-benefits generation who have all but died now
Current and future people who have grown up in a culture of benefits, child benefit, JSA, the NHS etc don't have any 'shame' in not accessing state entitlements. They see it as just that - an entitlement

are building up a personal fund which is used for their pension
they would be worse off if it did.

We're not yet hand to mouth, but the few savings we have left will soon be gone and then we'll have to move. I am grateful for what we have, but I know we're not the affluent pensioners people are so resentful of

Well, you did give away your lump sum.

It should be linked to income. Ridiculous to make a blanket statement that all pensioners are better of than younger people!

Freebies like bus passes should go if the income is above a certain level. Just like all freebies.

My parents and all their friends live in London in massive expensive houses because they've surfed the wave of rising house prices, enjoying free travel and the many delights of a capital city they don't need to negotiate at rush hour all the while looking forward to/ enjoying gold plated pensions and more of the same.

Not saying it's wrong, but generational inequality is massive...

The triple lock must go. It is unsustainable and unfair. 20 years ago, pensioners were the age group most likely to be living in poverty. Now that is no longer the case- the group most likely to be living in poverty is children, and it's only going to get worse. Working people will suffer severely from wage stagnation and inflation over the next decade- the notion that they should also be paying to protect pensioners from inflation is morally abhorrent.

Haven't read through yet but see the old 'free TV licences ' ugly has reared its head several times already on page one. Free TV licences are for people over 75. rinse and repeat. rinse and repeat.

And as for bus services cut because so many people travel for free, the cost of the bus pass is claimed back by the bus companies. Think instead about how many bus routes would be cut during the day if there was no demand for their use.

The bus pass is a relatively cheap and effective way of making sure that older people are active, engaged and contributing . Many young people's jobs rely on the grey pound, think cafes ,cinemas, theatres,galleries, small shops etc. without older people getting out and about and spending their money many of these business and services would be hard hit. ditto for volunteering.would people rather older people were vegetating at home ,getting isolated, depressed and immobile rather than keeping themselves busy and alert and contributing to the community and to the economy.

Here's the issue as I see it:

When the first state pension was introduced in 1909 it was payable to over 70s. At that time, only 20% of 20 year olds would make it to 70 and those that did would only survive to 78.

So the state pension would only be paid to 20% of people and was only payable for 8 years on average.

Fast forward to today. Pension is payable at 65. About 85% of 20 year olds will make it to that age and on average they will live to their mid 80s. So the state pension is paid to 80% of people and payable for 20 years.

It's not really surprising we can't afford it. Especially with the baby boom bulge now hitting pension age.

Pension age should have been increased gradually in line with life expectancy over the years. It hasn't - I suspect because (a) that would lose the grey vote and (b) raising retirement age would likely raise unemployment figures, as new jobs aren't going to materialise for all the 60 somethings (or the 60 somethings will keep their jobs at the expense of younger workers).

My inlaws are massively wealthy. Worked very hard their whole lives, were frugal, were sensible. My friends parents spent every penny they had. Essentials and non essentials. Multiple holidays a year. New car on finance every year. More clothes than you could ever need. House full of crap. Now they are retired and barely have a penny to their name. They complain about my inlaws getting money they "don't need". I disagree with them. My inlaws were sensible. Why should money be taken away from those who plan for their future and act accordingly be given to those who are irresponsible.

Whilst I would prefer not to get rid of things, I don't see why pensioners should keep voting in the Tories but not get hit by their cuts. It always seems to be the disabled who suffer.

Why should pensioners get free bus passes, free TV licence, a rise on their pension every year, no savings limits, a winter fuel payment and free prescriptions and eye tests? My best friend is disabled and gets none of that but her actual living costs are far higher. It's not fair that the disabled are getting money taken away whilst pensioners are being protected.

What is even worse is people who are very wealthy but get the winter fuel allowance, or people who live abroad and use it to heat their villa. It really makes me fuming.

LaPharisienne Hopefully you'll have a huge inheritance coming one day.

Cannot agree with you on bus passes. The reason bus services are being cut all over is that most of the users don't pay
But the bus companies don't lose out do they? As far as I know they're reimbursed by the issuer of the bus pass.

I think we should keep free bus passes but maybe extend the age to 75 except for those who have a medical reason not to drive. It is more eco-friendly to use a bus than to drive a car.

YABU OP

All benefits should be means-tested, including pensions over a basic allowance.

This is just the result of the government pitting us all against each other.

There is no need for austerity. We have a tory government that doesn't believe in the state, therefore services and benefits are being taken away. The NHS is next.

They went for the poor and disabled to soften us up, and now we think the elderly are fair game too.

I am a pensioner. I manage.
I have saved all of my life because my mother struggled financially in old age.
If you make these pensioner benefits means tested what incentive is there for me to save.
I know many other older people who think I am stupid for saving. They tell me they get welfare benefits like housing benefit that I don't get.
If you means test pensioner benefits then why should anyone save for retirement.
And yes, I have worked all of my adult life. I don't have a final salary pension and I didn't get a pay off and early retirement. I simply worked and saved without expecting the current tax payers to pay for my old age.
By all means cut pensioner benefits, but for all pensioners.

viques again, I don't support means testing the bus pass (primarily due to the administration cost of doing so), but surely your post is actually advocates entirely free buses for all, rather than just for older people? Surely we'd all be happier, healthier, spending more money in our town centres, etc if we got free transport?

Well I DID prepare. But with Gordon Brown screwing with my employment pension, and being screwed by the unexpectedly sudden increase in pension age, I feel the least I should be able to expect is a secure pension for all the years I've paid NI. Don't forget that for many of us oldies, frequent job changing means absolutely no employment based pension for those years. Nothing. Nada. Pension payments used to be 'included' and you get nothing if you left within 5 years. No personal pension option. I saved instead, but the savings rates are so poor, that wasn't a great option either.

I do agree about free bus passes in London. If I lived there, I'd get one at 60. But I live just outside London, so have to wait until I'm 66. Fair? Absolutely not!