to make my DD send her Granny's Christmas present back?

[krustykittens]

For reasons too numerous to go into here, I went NC with my parents a couple of months ago. I intend for this to be permanent. After the horrible incident that made us go NC, my eldest daughter, 14, blocked her grandparents from her phone and has not spoken to them since. Youngest has kept in touch via phone, which I am not happy about, but I feel it is up to her to decide if she wants a relationship with her grandmother (my father never bothers with the kids). Today, both of my children recieved Christmas cards with a £30 cheque. I have told my eldest that she needs to send it back, it's not right to not speak to someone but take their money. She feels it is a bit harsh to just send the cheque back, so I have suggested that she write her grandmother a letter to send with it, explaining why she is so upset and why she is not keeping it. DH says we just cash them, but to me, that is immoral. I have no problem with my youngest doing it as she stills talks to her Granny and will be sending her a card and a present. Honestly, I don't want anything to do with them at all and even seeing her handwriting makes me feel ill!

Just to clarify, I haven't told the kids they have to be NC with their grandparents. I explained to them that mysef and DH no longer wanted contact but we were happy for them to do so. Eldest went NC because they decided to focus on a conversation they had with her where they slagged her father off and claim that she was a liar and was mentally ill. She's not, to either charge, and is extremly upset with them. LOTS of other stuff went on that weekend but that is why my daughter doesn't want to talk to her Grandmother. My Dad doesn't give a shit and never has. As I said, my youngest decided she wanted to stay in touch and we don't interfere with that. I just think it is not right to take money from someone but ignore them. I'm not insisting she write a letter either, it is up to her how she wants to handle it, I suggested the letter as she felt it wasa bit harsh just to send the cheque back.But she could just rip it up.

Honestly, Diegetic, I don't know. My mother is very manipulative but it could be an olive branch to DD. I couldn't have a relationship with her unless she acknowledges her behaviour is upsetting and makes an efffort but we have tried that in the past and we have tried to set boundaries and both of my parents just take the piss, every time.

Let your daughter keep it but she does need to call or write to thank her. I agree with above, it's your disagreement don't put your 14yo in an awful position, she might want to see her grandmother but isn't out of loyalty to you. How would you have felt if your mum had only acknowledged your youngest with a gift?

"I explained to them that mysef and DH no longer wanted contact but we were happy for them to do so"

Why did you say that to them at all?. You are clearly dealing with people who were not and will never be reasonable as long as they live. The above was an error of judgment which has now come back to bite you.

Your youngest clearly does not realise that she is being manipulated and your mother is doing a behaviour known as "hoovering". Your mother and her enabler of a H ignore your no contact position. The toxic hooverer does not care about your children either; she wants to keep your youngest around so she can use her to get back at you people.

Why are you letting your youngest choose? Do you really think she has the emotional maturity to realise when they are bring poisonous?

I never get the reasoning of 'I can't be around your poison but I'll let you Be around my kids' mentally.

What makes you think they won't be the same with her - or are you waiting for them to do something first?

Where is your parental responsibility?

Potnoodle, I am scared that if I force my youngest to go NC against her wishes, then she will put my manipulative, abusive and toxic parents on a pedestal and it will cause even more damage in years to come when she can contact them without going through me. It will all become a terrible drama where she is ripped away from loving grandparents by her evil mother. I wouldn't let the contact continue if she was abusing her, but they only have contact via mobile and she talks to me about the conversations. The one time she tried to get my youngest to agree with her that her sister was mentally ill and a liar, youngest put the phone down on her and my mother hasn't tried it since. I am trying to be honest and open about why I can;t have a relationship anymore and let her make up her own mind. My eldest has decided to go NC on her own.

"My mother is very manipulative but it could be an olive branch to DD"

I will tell you straight out that it is not. Seen this type of scenario play out a lot before now. You also have no direct evidence to suggest that your mother has somehow become less manipulative. Sending cheques to your children was a further exercise in hoovering behaviour and that is never ever done out of concern for the family unit on the receiving end of such destructive behaviour. Hoovering is manipulation to gain control over your choice to distance yourself. These cards and cheques were unwanted and should be treated as such.

I learnt that my parents abused me and abused my dcs too. They don't change their behaviour for grandchildren. I thought only I would be abused as they hate me, but they used my dcs to abuse me and abused them in their own right!
Protect your dcs.

If she doesn't want to just return it, I would rip it up and not contact the grandmother - but then reimburse your DD yourself to the same amount. I agree with pp that a letter re-opens the dialogue and cashing the cheque opens your DD up to accusations of hypocrisy and her grandparents sound the sort who wouldn't hesitate to call her out for this.

Really tough situation. I can completely imagine my mother doing something similar.

I think this is an opportunity to calmly explain to DD that there's no such thing as a free lunch. She obviously stopped talking to GM because of hurtful things she said. Now GM has sent on this gift - how does DD feel? Why does she think GM sent it?

Personally, I'd have intercepted both cards/cheques and ripped them up. I don't claim moral high ground (obviously), but that's what I'd have done.

krusty

Your mother is using your DD to get back at you; that itself is abusive behaviour on your mother's part. She does not give a fig about this child or your other DD.

Sending the cheque back opens a line of communication which will then open the door for her to bother you all even more. Radio silence from you must be maintained.

I have also found this past excerpt re narcissistic grandparents to be very useful:-

"You are the parent. You get to make these decisions without apology or excessive justification. You can assure your child that you are making a wise and loving decision for them as well as yourself. I am not going to script what you should say because you are the only one who knows your children, but you must convey that this isn't up for negotiation. This is not a decision that the child gets to make. Yes, children usually love their grandparents. Children are often quite indiscriminate in their love which is why they need parents to guide them. Not every person is safe to have around and this is a good time to teach that important life lesson. The more matter-of-fact you are, the more matter-of-fact your children will be. When we act hysterical, they will usually reflect our hysteria. If you act anxious, they will act anxious. If you appear unsure, they will push. Model the reaction and attitude you want your children to adopt".

krusty you last bit about trying to make your youngest believe her sister is ill fucking awful. Do you read every text and listen to every convo?

Sometimes being a parent means you have to make decisions that make you look the bad guy. No way ok this planet would I allow further contact after what she has done. She was trying to mess with your child's head.

Don't give her the power any more. Protect your girls and go full NC. You don't need poisonous people like that around your kids and you don't owe your mother nothing.

I'm going through something similar but not as bad.

So let me get his straight. GM has called your younger daughter and tried to get her to agree with her that her sister is insane? Doesn't matter if it just happened the once I can't believe you allow her to contact the girl. Your dd won't put them on a pedastal if you're honest with her. Tell her the truth about the stuff your GM has done and then block contact.

its got nothing to do with you if your dd wants to keep the cheque.

Of course it has everything to do with OP - she's the child's mother, ffs, she has a duty to help and guide her, not least in how to deal with the toxic person who claimed she was a liar and mentally ill. She absolutely can't stand back and say "Nothing to do with me, none of my business".

I would say just tear up the cheque and ignore it.

Watching this with interest as I suspect my estranged PIL will do this at Christmas. We haven't spoken for 2 months and to all intents and purposes are nc. I didn't want any part in the estrangement and then MIL sent me a birthday gift. I accepted it and sent a thank you card but have no intention of spending voucher as it's only been gifted as per social convention and MIL ignores me when she sees me.

Ok, now that OP has added more detail, I would say a frank discussion with dd followed by destroying the cheque. Pledge to donate to charity of her choice.

I would cash the cheque, and give the money to a mental health charity in your MiL's name, that way the charity can send her a letter thanking her.

Or maybe that is too PA?

I think the children should keep the cheques - whatever has gone on, the money is meant for them and even if the eldest is not wanting contact they seem to deserve it for all the hassle. If she is trying to get round her that's fine but it doesn't mean to say your daughter will fall for it - let them keep them and let them make their own minds up ...... if it was meant for you then I'd say definitely send it back but not the children - they're only young and need to decide for themselves - rude or not to keep the cheques in your adult mind, I think they should be allowed to keep the money

Actually I've changed my mind, GM is batshit. Keep both cheques, make sure they spend it on something frivolous and probably not approved of by GM.

NC DD doesn't send a thank you, she can say she's still waiting for an apology.

I agree with pp that they both sound like they deserve something "back" for all the grief they've had.

From experience with that sort of grand parent, I suspect your dd will know if this is about buying her with gifts or if this is a true olive branch.

I think I would have a chat with her explaining what is possible (an olive branch, a PA thing, trying to buy her affection/contact etc...) and ask her what she feels would be right.

I would keep in mind that yes she is 14yo but she is also only 14yo and might need quite a bit support/guidance on what to do. This is a difficult situation for an adult and she won't have the experience/maturity to help her in her choice.

I would rip both cheques up, cashing them gives your mother power. Sending them back with a letter opens up lines of communication between them it also gives her power and an 'in' in which she could berate your dd even more. Keep a careful eye on your younger daughter too.

Have you asked your eldest daughter how she feels about the proposal that she send the cheque back and doesn't get the money but her sister does? If she agrees and isn't not bothered then return it if you want, or rip it up. If she doesn't want any contact with her grandparents then I wouldn't bring up writing a letter to explain things again, just leave it. Your mum might ask your younger daughter about it, maybe tell her to tell her gran that her sister didn't want it and then change the subject.

If your eldest is upset at the thought that she won't get the money but her sister will then consider not letting either of them have the money (you could replace it with your own if you can afford it, or just explain to both that you don't want them accepting gifts off your mum), or, alternatively, cash both cheques and use the money to take your children on a lovely day out. Your mum has sent them now, if you don't want to thank her or say anything to her about the eldest's then don't. I imagine after a while, if things aren't resolved between all parties, she'll give up trying and just focus on her relationship with your youngest.

The correct thing to do would have been to make sure both dcs were also nc. Bad move to allow the youngest a relationship - she's already having to be the strong one in putting down the phone when they get abusive. Really not fair to put a child in that situation

But it is what it is. Tear up cheque. Don't send back. Don't send explanatory note. Nc is nc.

Long term you need to seriously reconsider allowing your youngest contact. If they are abusive they are likely to do everything they can to manipulate her against her sister, and you. What will you do in a few years time when they buy her a car, offer to take her on holiday.

I was in exactly your DCs' position at their age and it's really, really difficult. Their 'choice' to also go NC isn't really a full choice at that age because they'll be so conflicted by their loyalty to you.

My GD used to send me money at Christmas and birthday and I'd always send a thank you card back. It was our way of keeping in touch despite everything and it worked.

What an evening and it's only 6.45! Thank you so much to everyone who replied, apart from Dec10. I talked to my DH and then had a chat with the girls. Both cheques are being ripped up and we will give them the money ourselves. But you guys are right, NC means NC and we are taking the decision out of our youngest's hands. My mother is an abuser, a subtle one, but one nonetheless and there is no way in hell I would ordinarily let an abuser near my kid. I still feel very guilty about going NC and ashamed but we do have good reason. We sat the girls down and told the youngest that we are sorry, we made a mistake, that we are now enforcing NC with her, not because we hate her grandmother but because we love her. We can't stop her seeking her out when she is an adult but we hope by then she will have the life skills to cope with her by then or at least protect herself. Until then, we are going to do the protecting for her. She's crying her eyes out and probably hates me, but this can't go on. I can't talk about this stuff in RL as I am too ashamed to admit I am NC with my own parents or why, so it really does help to come on here and talk to people who have gone through something similar. Even those who disagree, it is good to hear your thoughts. I appreciate it.