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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to say mn is potentially putting people at risk

149 replies

LilQueenie · 11/12/2016 00:56

twice I have gone to post something but stopped myself out of pure fear it will end up viral in the papers or magazines. It used to be a place to find support and advice. Now it feels like russian roulette. Not helpful at all.

OP posts:
LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 11/12/2016 09:33

I thought it had been generally agreed not to link to that story? Whilst it's shit it was in the DM, it was already available to the public on MN so it's no different.

Mollyisabellajack · 11/12/2016 09:39

Sorry I did not realise that, my apologies everyone Sad

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 11/12/2016 09:40

You have just potentially increased traffic to their site Grin THAT is the perfect example of why it works for them and MN

53rdAndBird · 11/12/2016 09:43

I don't think MN are putting posters at risk.

OTOH, I think the people chorusing "but it's THE INTERNET, you can't expect it to be private!" are missing the point somewhat. The tabloid press lifting and republishing threads from forums like this on a daily basis is a new thing. It's not the way things have always been, and I've been on the internet since all this was fields Usenet. (And there's another forum I post on a lot, which is pretty big and older than MN, where discussions getting picked up by other websites has happened maybe four times that I can remember. Only one of those was about something really personal, and there was a massive outcry over someone's sexual assault story getting used as clickbait elsewhere.)

Yes it's public, but there's public and there's public. If I'm talking to some friends in a cafe, I don't want someone standing with a megaphone next to me to blare out every other conversation to the world: "Mum ASKS how long it took people's periods to return after BREASTFEEDING and there's a heated debate!" or whatever.

You can say "well it's the way things are now, just don't post about anything personal" I suppose. But people have been using MN (and many many many other places on the internet) to talk and ask about personal things since it's been around. I talked about an abusive relationship I was in on an Internet forum a long time before I dared tell anyone in real life, and I'm still very grateful for the support and "HOLY HELL GET OUT NOW" I got on there.

I suppose we could all stop posting about anything personal ever and leave MN for discussions about tinsel and biscuits. But that would be quite a shame.

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 11/12/2016 09:47

But it's just swapping one public website for another. So in your example, it would be shouting to one group of strangers (because that's what we are doing) and then one of them shouting to another group.

most of the time (I know there are exceptions) the paper lifts the posts from here directly and that's all the article is. It's basically copy and paste - lazy journalism but they aren't giving any more information than can be found on here.

WhatsGoingOnEh · 11/12/2016 09:49

I thought MN held the copyright of all our posts. Am I making that up? I'm sure I read it somewhere on the site, around the time MN used to compile all the posts and publish them as books.

If they do, does that mean MN are being paid by The Mail when it uses posts for stories..?

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 11/12/2016 09:51

No MN have clarified several times that DM don't pay them, neither do they pay the DM

WhatsGoingOnEh · 11/12/2016 09:51

Yes, I thought so. Under Terms of Use:

Mumsnet Terms of Use

Copyright: This Web site and its contents are copyright Mumsnet, all rights reserved. Reproduction of all or any substantial part of the contents in any form is prohibited. No part of the site may be distributed or copied for any commercial purpose without express approval.

WhatsGoingOnEh · 11/12/2016 09:52

No MN have clarified several times that DM don't pay them, neither do they pay the DM

Oh, OK. They just do it for the free promotion then. (Which I'd probably do too, TBH.)

ARumWithAView · 11/12/2016 09:55

I think it's important to acknowledge that story.

It's easy to be patronising, snide and sarcastic as fuck ('for the hard of understanding', 'you can whine all you like') when we're talking about silly stories turning up on the DM.

But we need to recognise that this response applies to everyone who posts. We're talking about sitewide privacy, and you can't pick and choose who you're calling an idiot. If someone's a moron to expect privacy or just want to discuss it, then everyone on every thread is subject to the same response. Grieving parents, abuse victims, women with PND. They are all complete fools if they participate here without fully, gladly accepting the ever-increasing chance of appearing in the Daily Mail.

Again: just because the DM isn't on the Pregnancy Loss or Bereavement topics right now, doesn't mean it won't be.

TheBogQueen · 11/12/2016 09:55

It's a chat forum on the internet.

Not an emergency service.

53rdAndBird · 11/12/2016 09:59

But it's just swapping one public website for another.

It's swapping one public website, where I have chosen to post and know a lot of people, to another website linked to a national newspaper, where I haven't chosen to post, and where my various relatives will read all about it.

So no, not the same just because "it's public".

Like I said, people have been using MN and other forums to get support about personal issues for a long long time. It would be a huge shame if that stopped existing.

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 11/12/2016 10:00

And again they just cut and paste mainly - why is it different on here than being pasted into another site? No it shouldn't happen but that's how internet news sites work now

LiviaDrusillaAugusta · 11/12/2016 10:01

And feel free to start your own private forum - MN gets more members through this so don't expect them to attempt to stop it happening any time soon

ARumWithAView · 11/12/2016 10:07

It's a chat forum on the internet.

There are one trillion chat forums on the internet, and most of them are free to use.

Yes, MN is a business. And a brand. How does it position itself? Not as a conscience-free no-holds-barred site for all-and-any content, restricted only by the limits of the law. It's not 4chan. The word 'support' comes up a lot, and MN has openly prioritised ethical practice over profits.

Our aim is to: Make parents' lives easier by pooling knowledge, advice and support.

Mumsnet is a business funded mainly by advertising and we try to be a profitable one but our overarching aim is not the pursuit of profits. We are independently owned and we endeavour to conduct business in an ethical manner.

With this in mind, we do not accept advertising from a number of companies [...] and for a number of products [...] or anything that we believe does not sit well with our philosophy - namely to make parents' lives easier.

We don't take advertising from loan sharks, as it's obvious from our forums that payday loans can cause misery for families.

I don't see why we should accept, without question, that MN are thrilled to be featured in the DM, or that it's inevitable and absolutely nothing can be done to prevent it (and that people are complete idiots for suggesting otherwise).

Lorelei76 · 11/12/2016 10:09

Bonkers...posting on a public forum without knowing what public means. Nothing has changed OP you're just more aware of the risk.

BakeOffBiscuits · 11/12/2016 10:15

MN used to feel like a safe space, but it was much smaller, you could post about anything and know it wouldn't end up in a national newspaper!

But as its bigger now, you cannot do that.

I think that's a real shame.

BakeOffBiscuits · 11/12/2016 10:16

But things have changed on MNHmm

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 11/12/2016 10:18

We're anonymous here (excepting the hacking previously) and what we post, if we're careful, doesn't have to expose our RL identities. I really don't understand the fuss that some posters make when they see their usernames in a daily rag... what does that even mean? Confused

It's a free forum to use and we post on the basis that whatever we blurt out or wisely impart, no longer belongs to us at that point. We have the choice and presumably the wherewithal to understand the risk of our username appearing in a rag and temper/change/restrict our posts accordingly.

I'm not worried about it; on the basis that 'RTFT' appears on eleventy-million threads because posters haven't read what even the OP has posted... what makes you think that someone who has bought a rag for the latest z-leb scandal or football results, will a) even have read the 'article' in question or b) remembers ANY of the facts in it, nevermind the anonymous poster's name from whom the quotes were pinched?

I think you're being daft and the cotton wool is that-a-way.... >>>

WannaBe · 11/12/2016 10:27

At risk of what, exactly?

The only difference between here and the DM is that most people won't admit to being regular forum users, whereas people are more likely to admit they read X article in the DM or similar. But from experience more people read MN without contributing than we realise, and if you put enough information on here which would identify you then there's as much chance that the people you're writing about will recognise you.

Six years ago I walked into my local tesco, and a woman at the till said "hello, you're wannabe from MN aren't you? Shock and I hadn't even opened my mouth. It was a well known fact though that I am VI, have one child, have a guide dog, and once I posted about something in my local area, and she recognised me purely from that information - she was a mn'er not someone who knew me personally, but the principle still stands.

People need to get past this idea that MN is a source of support for people to post their most intimate issues, about their DV relationships, abuse they may have suffered, about their mental health etc. Yes of course if people feel thus inclined they can post about those things here. But they do so in the knowledge that the instant they hit the post button that information is out there on a public website, and even if it isn't lifted by the tabloids, there is still no way to control who reads it, and digests it, and potentially recognises someone they know from it.

The daily mail lifting threads hasn't changed that fact at all. it's just highlighted it.

It's very simple. If you don't want your personal life to become public knowledge, then don't post it on public media.

bibbitybobbityyhat · 11/12/2016 10:52

Excellent posts 53rdandbird.

I think we all need to accept that Mumsnet is changing massively because of the Daily Mail. Some of us are just taking a little longer to do so. Meanwhile, if we could be patient with users who are questioning/being upset by it? Not everyone spends a lot of time on Mumsnet so haven't seen the many previous threads on the subject. The fact that there are so many threads just shows how controversial this issue is.

I had a long thread deleted the other day, purely because I didn't want it to end up in the Mail. The message from HQ said "op wanted this deleted for privacy concerns" but I would have preferred them to say "op wanted this deleted because she didn't want it to be lifted by the bastard Mail".

UneducatedCockwomble · 11/12/2016 10:56

DM don't pay them, neither do they pay the DM

DM + MN = Mutually Beneficial Arrangement

bibbitybobbityyhat · 11/12/2016 10:58

I'm sure I saw someone from HQ on a recent thread expressing concern about the amount of thread lifting going on just now. Might even have been Justine?

VintagePerfumista · 11/12/2016 11:00

People are not idiots because they post stories about their husband's dick (or other serious things) on social media.

They are naive at best, and yes, idiots at worst, if they think that's where it ends.

Don't we tell our children about online safety? Not talking to strangers on the internet?

Our children would be fucking embarrassed if they read some of the things their parents threw around social media.

The people who start the "OMFG! MN Protect Me Now!" weekly threads, really need to do some sort of online safety lesson like our kids do.

UneducatedCockwomble · 11/12/2016 11:01

Correction:

DM + MN = Mutually Beneficial Relationship