to be annoyed about teachers assuming there's always a parent at home?

[mangoparfait]

Went to parents evening earlier this week with DC, who has mocks in Jan.

All the teachers have agreed to offer additional support after school to pupils who need it. Which is great, not knocking that at all. I think it's a really good thing.

Attendance is voluntary, but as DC mentioned during the parents eve that some general revision help would be useful, plus more specifically there were certain elements of 2 subjects that just hadn't 'clicked', teachers and I agreed coming to the afterschool sessions would be helpful. DC mentioned they'd planned to come to one earlier in the week, but forgot, came home after school (we live 10 mins from school) and went out to play sport. Oh, says teacher 1, next time you do that, your mum will have to just send you back to school (nodding at me).

To which I said I'd happily do so, except for the fact I'm not at home at 3.10pm, I'm at work. Teacher looked amazed.

Fair enough I thought - until we then had a similar conversation with the next teacher!

I quite understand DC needs to stay for these sessions, and am not seeking to argue that, it is for their benefit, and although going at the end of a school day can seem an unexciting prospect, equally it will help them. And they need to make sure they remember (which I can help with by calling/ texting them as a reminder after school). But I won't be at home as I work ft!

Is that really so unusual? If it was one teacher I'd have brushed it off, but 2, I'm a bit surprised tbh.

And as I said, my school (and most schools) do their best to do that. We have a calendar with plenty of notice for most events. But it can't be set in stone. Things change all the time in a school, it is a dynamic environment. If you want people to educate effectively you have to be prepared to give them a bit of support and not moan about he slightest thing, providing they are reasonable and effective overall.

As if nothing ever changes in the average workplace! Has your boss never moved an event, never asked you to work a bit later, cancelled a meeting? Have you never done those things? People expect things of schools and teachers that they would never expect from their managers or themselves.

But changes still don't explain what happens in a lot of schools.
If the reason was because of changes, then parents would have known in advance that in December there will a meeting to discuss Sats for example. Closer to the time, parents would be then told, oops because of unforeseen circumstance, the time/date/location has been changed for x. We apologise for the inconvenience.

Instead it comes across to parents as lack of organisation and someone has a bit of free time the following day, so lets scramble something together. And a text or email is sent out at 4pm.

Of course things change in the workplace. I plan an event, I make arrangements for the event, I liaise with the relevant people for the event. I ensure that relevant people are invited. The event is on the calendar. Everyone is aware that x date x time, x location y is happening. Then something happens at the last minute and it needs to be postponed. So out goes a message apologising for the inconvenience and if available the new details. What doesn't happen is the day before the event invites are sent out. That's bad planning and unprofessional. And rightfully my performance would be questioned.

Same with outside companies. They don't just contact a school on a whim the day before and arrange something. These take weeks of organising. Yet parents are often not made aware of these things until the day before, even though they require parental input.

bloodyteenagers: Of course it isn't okay for everything to happen on the hoof and be announced the previous day - I am not saying that at all. But even with a clear grasp of process - organising, communicating etc. as you describe - there will always be someone who could have done with more notice. There are posts on threads like these complaining about 2-3 weeks notice to send in a can of baked beans for Harvest Festival or 'only' a term's notice of the date of an exam. It is easy to take reasonable criticism too far.

Yes at my work events are planned well in advance and invites sent out. If we didn't do this, no one would come. And events only get moved if there was a massive issue such as the venue was flooded the day before and everything else was booked up. The things that get moved in my workplace are internal things such as team meetings.

The work meeting is a red herring though. If my managers arrange a meeting during the working day, even at short notice, they'll expect I can attend, assuming it doesn't clash with another meeting, because it's my job, and it's during my hours, so I will be in the office at that time. The assumption's not made because of my gender.

Yes short notice requests/ meetings/ events by schools are irritating but what annoys more Imo is what sits behind it, ie the presumption there will be a parent who can attend and support because all women either don't work, or have a little pin money job, so, irrespective of the timing of the event, or how little notice is given, they can pitch up. Or (as per my OP) expecting that there is a parent at home at 3pm every day.

As if nothing ever changes in the average workplace! Has your boss never moved an event, never asked you to work a bit later, cancelled a meeting? Have you never done those things?

Yes. And when that happens, it's accepted that people may not be able to make the revised time, or there may be knock on consequences. And crucially, they tell you in advance that the bloody event is happening in the first place with more than 24 hours' notice, even if it has to move later.

People expect things of schools and teachers that they would never expect from their managers or themselves.

They really don't. Just to be treated with courtesy and as individuals with lives and priorities of their own that mean they can't drop everything at the last minute because the school either can't get its act together or can,but chooses not to tell parents until the last minute. And then we have to deal with children upset because we couldn't come to sharing assembly or teachers arsey because curiously no, we couldn't make the phonics briefing session at 2pm on a Tuesday, especially after all the other ad-hoc half hour briefing sessions we'd taken time off for in the early weeks with no notice. And yes, it is reasonable to ask if there's any written material for parents who were unable to attend.

You say the teacher looked amazed- did he or she actually verbally express surprise that you worked?

YANBU. Our son's primary school does that. A lot. And whenever something is on, we get minimal notice which makes it hard to book time off.

As if nothing ever changes in the average workplace! Has your boss never moved an event, never asked you to work a bit later, cancelled a meeting? Have you never done those things?

We don't do that when we are expecting people outside the organization. Internally, sure, because those people are already effectively booked to be in the office at that time (though even then, there is an understanding that it's not best practice because people have plans for their time). But if we have customers, consultants, suppliers, etc. we know we will get much shoddier results if we assume they are infinitely available.

This is a pretty basic aspect of business communication.

Our children's schools have always been quite good about advance planning and give term dates for ages. As a family I book our holiday over 12 months in advance and 5 adults in work are fixing their work leave requests around school term times etc My son booked something in Beligum today based around when he had to be back from school speech day in July. I don't find the private schools are too bad for setting dates ahead of time but the more the better as we all have very busy lives and we need dates well in advance. I have been attending parents' evenings at schools for 30 years now continuously (lucky me)... last year now and those go straight in the work diary as soon as the schools produce them and I think fix business trip away, meetings and everything else around them to try to be available for them and ditto school concerts and carol services.

I've sometimes wondered as to whether teachers are just so pissed off that they really struggle to get time off during term time for their own children's event and just say stuff like that to piss other working parents off?

Yes it's this, its definitely this.