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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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to think stripping naked to shower after PE at school was horrific? **title edited by MNHQ**

883 replies

Flowersinyourhair · 05/12/2016 22:35

Recent conversations with my daughter about PE at school (she loves it, I hated it) have got me thinking about why I disliked it so much.

I was reminded of the hideous shower experience. After PE, the girls would be obliged to have a naked shower, all in together. We would then have to go to the teacher, totally starkers and dripping wet, and bit ticked off on a register to say we'd had a shower.

I can't to this day understand why it mattered so much. It's a safeguarding nightmare really and I'm so glad it doesn't work like that anymore.

AIBU to think it's no reason I hated PE and to ask whether my school was particularly weird??

OP posts:
ShotgunNotDoingThePans · 08/12/2016 10:43

I hated long-distance running in particular as we used to have to run past a gaggle of truanting lads from the nearby mixed school (no sports bras in the seventies). Every time,without fail, body-shaming comments would be made. Some of them were only about 14. No one ever mentioned it to teachers or parents, it was just something to be endured.

SeventyNineBottlesOfWine · 08/12/2016 10:49

I keep coming back to this thread after commenting on it earlier to read everyone's comments.
I remember how a few of us would try to avoid the showers as we hated it so much and were told that if we kept trying to sneak in with our towels that we would be forced to remove our towels and shower one at a time with everyone onlooking.
We stopped trying to take our towels into the showers with us after that. Mass humiliation seemed easier than walking naked, alone across the communal changing room to the communal open shower block with all eyes on us.

I always wondered why my boundaries were so messed up as I was growing up. It's quite apparent why they were really!

So many of us humiliated and forced to strip naked which we did so willingly when told to by someone in authority.

Some people have asked why parents never did anything about it.
I discussed this very thread with my mother the other night. She was always aware that we had to shower like this and was never the kind who would stand up for me. She would always defer to authority. She went through the same treatment and just accepts it as being how it was.

She also accepted when my sister's, friend's Dad groped me when I was only 14 years old and all she had to say about it was that if he did it again, then she'd tell his wife.

It's outrageous looking back on it. Children had absolutely no rights back then.

CuntyMcCuntyface · 08/12/2016 10:56

I had similar Wine - DM told me I had to do what the teachers said, DF said if I wanted a life in the forces (which I did) then I'd have to get used to it. When I was groped by a neighbour's son aged about 11, DM just told me to stay away from him. Because obviously it was my fault. It's only through posting on here and reading others' replies that I realise how messed up these early experiences have made me. I can't imagine ever allowing these kind of things to go unchecked with any of my DC, in fact I have challenged one teacher in particular who seems to single out my youngest for nasty comments and insulting behaviour and dd has now been told she can leave that teacher's lessons whenever she wants. Thank fuck times have changed.

MrsWhiteWash · 08/12/2016 10:59

I pretty sure my parents knew as I remember older brother complaining and me being given advice on how to shield myself with a towel.

One of the worst experience of my Mum life was having to give birth in a room full of medical students despite her my dad objecting. They also had years of primary school blaming us for our all our problems and them trying hard and getting no where. I don't know if they raised it and got no where or just felt powerless in face of authority.

tangerino · 08/12/2016 11:03

Never had a shower after games at school- there were some but noone ever used them. But how grim to just put your uniform back on after games, all sweaty? And we generally left our games kit at school in a locker ALL TERM without taking it home to be washed- absolutely rank.

SeventyNineBottlesOfWine · 08/12/2016 11:30

CuntyMcCuntyFace I agree, it's when you read what others think to things like this and start reflecting on it as an adult that you realise there's no wonder it messed you up.

I have children now and agree if they were ever treated that way (I'm talking in particular about sexual harassment here) I'd be going straight to the police. I certainly wouldn't continue speaking to the person involved who had harmed my child and acting as though nothing had happened- which is precisely what my mother did.

wheresthewine36 · 08/12/2016 11:40

My "keep your gob shut and do as you're told" education enraged me as a teenager and led to me constantly fighting against anyone in authority which in turn led to me receiving a piss-poor education. I could never understand why we were expected to never question what we were told. I have brought my children up to question what they do not understand and respectfully refuse to do what they are not comfortable with. Not many adults would willingly go to work and take a communal shower with their colleagues so why should teenagers?!

liz70 · 08/12/2016 11:44

"But how grim to just put your uniform back on after games, all sweaty?"

Far less grim than being shamed, humiliated and left with lingering, painful memories 30 to 40 years later. Those of us who were lucky enough to avoid this just sprayed deodorant on, and had our usual daily bath or shower at home - with soap and shampoo. I did, and I wasn't particularly stinky for it.

Justaboy · 08/12/2016 13:00

Can anyone explain why and for what medical reason was there a "hands down pants" test as sure as hell i can't think of one!

DeleteOrDecay · 08/12/2016 13:01

But how grim to just put your uniform back on after games, all sweaty?

Much less grim than having to endure what a lot of posters here have described surely??

At my school we took our pe kits home every week for washing then brought it in the following week. No one ever noticeably stunk after pe. Deodorant and a shower at home later on followed by a fresh uniform the next day was more than sufficient.

MsGameandWatch · 08/12/2016 14:04

I used to take my PE kit home every week, my Mum washed it and I ironed and starched it, yes starched - military family - and repacked it for the following week. I would have loved a shower - in a private cubicle with nice soap and/or gel. Not naked humiliation in front of my peers and random disliked adults. It's nothing to do with being sweaty or smelly after PE. The tragedy is this was a missed opportunity, decent facilities would have been great for kids who weren't particularly well cared for at home and didn't have regular access to baths/showers and there were certainly a few of them.

Would we be expected to shower communally with female work colleagues and in front of our boss? Because this is the same thing, just a few years younger. It's completely outrageous and nothing to do with being preferable to being grim and smelly after PE.

AgnesCactus · 08/12/2016 14:37

School PE was hideous. I think it is to blame for my belief that I am crap at sport. The teachers thought I wasn't interested in PE as I was a bit larger than the other girls - not fat, but tall (5ft 5 when I was 11), broad shouldered and an early developer. I used to forge my PE notes and it wasn't only because of the PE and those bloody showers. I remember being teased by the biggest bitch in our year for having pubic hair. The teachers must have heard because the whole room did (every bloody class) and did nothing. Reading this thread has made me quite upset. Thank goodness schools are different.

itsmine · 08/12/2016 14:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

user1481201991 · 08/12/2016 14:42

I have a similar experience to others here. I remember girls’ PE in primary (1970s) was vest and knickers, sometimes just knickers. Boys were allowed shorts. Even at that age I remember the girls asking each other why they couldn’t wear shorts. Whole-school shaming in assembly and the “slipper” for those who were naughty.

We had the enforced communal shower all through secondary school (mid 1980s). There was a single narrow gap to get into the shower area which was guarded by two teachers, who kept the shower/period register. You had to go up to them if it was your period and they’d put a red P in the diary. If your period lasted too long or was irregular you were asked to bring a Doctor’s note and nagged about it the next time if you hadn’t done so. I think I ended up faking a note from my Mum once to try to get them off my case. Imagine going to the Doctor asking for a note for your PE teacher about your period these days?!

Because the gap to the showers was so narrow and the teachers stood either side partly in the way, it was virtually impossible to go through without brushing up against a mixture of wet & dry bodies as everyone rushed around. I hated this. The teachers would monitor whether you were wet enough when leaving, and if not you’d be sent back in and they’d be watching closely and commenting while you showered. The showers were old and manky, completely open, there was green mould/algae all over the place and the water was cold. If someone forgot their towel they also had to use paper hand towels to dry themselves as I think someone mentioned upthread.

Some girls, the ones good at PE, would act almost like mini teachers, extolling the virtues of showering and shaming anyone who was shy or covering up, reiterating comments about not being wet enough, commenting on other girls’ periods and the like. Did anyone else experience this? As if it wasn’t enough to get that crap from just the teachers. I got called a “big fat lump” and I was a fairly average build so other girls probably had it much worse.

Once everyone had been in the shower, the teachers would prowl around the room supervising and making comments to girls who weren’t considered to be drying themselves properly (no physical helping with drying that I saw, thankfully). Also “don’t forget that Doctor’s note” etc. Always in loud voices for the whole room to hear.

Within the communal changing room, right alongside some of the changing benches, there were two toilet cubicles where the tops and bottoms of the thin partitions didn’t meet the floor or ceiling by about a foot or so. This offered virtually no privacy using the toilet and everyone could hear sanitary towels and tampons being unwrapped. A bit of separation from the changing area would have been appreciated. I wonder if this was also the norm inside other school changing rooms.

Sorry this is so long – by the way I only clicked on this thread by accident, I wonder if it would be worth changing the title to be more specific as to what the thread is about? In a way it has been therapeutic to write all this down and I’m sure it’s helped quite a lot of us to know we weren’t the only ones. Thanks for starting it.

SeventyNineBottlesOfWine · 08/12/2016 14:45

user1481201991 I agree about changing the thread title to make it more specific. I'm another who has found it therapeutic to write it all down and also to discover that I wasn't alone in my horror of the experience.

itsmine · 08/12/2016 14:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

gaggiagirl · 08/12/2016 14:57

Early 80s we did PE in vest and knickers, like a previous poster said, sometimes just knickers (primary school). Thank goodness that doesn't happen these days.

Middle school we had the shower humiliation too. The cross country runs with grown men shouting 'big tits' at us.

High school having to shower together and then the games teacher would shower with us to check we were washing properly.

No wonder I hated sports. And i never broke into a sweat either.

MrsHathaway · 08/12/2016 14:57

Or maybe "did ritual humiliation put you off PE at school?"

tangerino · 08/12/2016 15:23

Liz70- apologies, that wasn't what I meant at all. I was talking about my own experience of games and not being allowed to wash at all, nor to have clean things to wear, which I found grim. I'm not at all saying that it's comparable to feeling humiliated by abusive teachers- it clearly isn't in any way. However I do think it's relevant to the thread- lack of suitable washing facilities can put girls off games, as it did in my school.

Itsmine, not sure why it's a stupid thing to say nor why you call me a PE teacher. Plenty of people on the thread have talked about not being able to wash after games. I found it unpleasant, as clearly many people did. Obviously not comparable to abuse, and I didn't draw that comparison.

liz70 · 08/12/2016 16:02

No doing PE in vest and knickers at primary and middle school ('75 to '82) for me either - we just wore our own non-uniform t-shirts and shorts, or girls had the option to wear leotards for indoor activities, if they chose. Again, I went to Catholic primary schools, though not private. I don't know if that had any bearing on it.

brasty · 08/12/2016 16:14

We only did vests and knickers in infants in PE at 4,5 and 6. After that you wore shorts and t shirt or gym skirt.

TakeItFromMe · 08/12/2016 16:15

In years 10 and 11 (or 4th and 5th to me back then) we changed from 2 separate lessons of PE to a whole afternoon double period of it. I clearly remember it was Wednesday afternoon and I spent 2 years absolutely dreading Wednesdays. We couldn't skip it (strict anti-truanting policy at my school), and still had to shower after even though the buses left at 3.10pm. Why did they make us shower when we were about to go home? They just loved it, the stress and humiliation of it all.

I remember being JEALOUS of my 70-odd year old emphysema-stricken Grandma because she didn't have to do PE, and longing for the day I was that old. I wished 5 years of my life away, all because of PE.

It makes me so angry.

hooliodancer · 08/12/2016 16:47

Oh God, you have just reminded me of the fucking leotard and footless tights we had to wear for dance. And again, the awful embarrassing sanitary towel bulging. Did these PE teachers not have periods or empathy.

I am getting quite upset with the few people who are seeing this as an issue about having a shower, or being smelly after PE
IT'S NOT ABOUT THAT it's about ritual humiliation . It's about being watched going about intimate personal business without your permission.

I'm sure everyone on here would have loved a hot private shower.

It has been so cathartic reading this. I thought our school was the only one that did it, but I realise now it must have been in legislation somewhere.

babyboomersrock · 08/12/2016 17:09

I hated most things about my 50s/60s school but the one thing we were spared was showers. I am saddened to hear what went on, but not surprised. Children had no rights; even at my allegedly prestigious academic school we were routinely shouted at and assaulted for the least thing. I lived through it in a state of fear.

For PE, we had to wear our normal school blouse - short-sleeved shirt-style - with cotton gym knickers. When a girl had her period, it was painfully obvious - sanitary towels were still huge bulky things, worn with a sanitary belt - and since periods didn't excuse you from PE, you'd often end up with stained gym knickers. We were never allowed enough time to go and clean up afterwards and would end up hobbling uncomfortably to the next class. It was 50-odd years ago for me and I can still feel the misery.

My own dc went to school in the 80s and 90s but there were no showers at their tiny rural school. I did - later - hear that the PE teacher had a habit of popping his head round the changing room door to hurry them up, but it was too late to complain by the time they told me.

Not surprised there are no comments from former PE teachers. It's indefensible.

AntiqueSinger · 08/12/2016 17:55

I agree the thread title should be changed to one of the aforementioned titles. Is the OP not around?

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