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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU to be beyond pleased about this flu vaccine petition

77 replies

lovelyredshoes · 02/12/2016 20:12

Finally! This is something that has really annoyed me and yet I've never other parents talking about it. FLU NASAL SPRAY VACCINES in school. It's wrong IMHO and I'm glad to see others are also feeling this way. Not flu JABS (de-activated), but nasal sprays given in schools. Anyone who has had one can be contagious - yes - contagious (it's in the medication leaflet). So if you are spraying it up the noses of school children, they could potentially infect elderly relatives or other reduced-immunity children or adults who have not been able/ have chosen not to have it. IMHO it has no place in schools - they are for education. I also find the 'state mentality' of the vaccine programme insulting. I imagine by rolling it out in schools makes parents presume it is 'okay'. Read the points of the petition. Are you being treated the same as parents in independent schools? No? Is it only state schools that should be used for 'herd' immunity with, frankly, scientifically ineffective and downright questionable drugs?

Before I'm flamed for being anti-vaccine, I assure you I am not. The Redshoes family have all had the flu jab and other vaccines at some point, although I don't do flu jabs now. Please read the reasonings on the petition because they are some of the most eloquent and clear arguments against the vaccine I have come across. Well done Justine Greening! www.change.org/p/department-of-education-secretary-of-state-justine-greening-stop-vaccination-with-the-influenza-nasal-spray-vaccine-in-our-schools?utm_medium=email&utm_source=notification&utm_campaign=signature_receipt

OP posts:

Original poster

lovelyredshoes · 02/12/2016 20:37

Soubriquet - yes, absolutely you are right. As I keep defending - I'm not anti-vacc. I'm anti-having it in schools. I also doubt the nasal spray because of the points mentioned in the petition. My view is that if you want it, your choice to get it, but not using the schools to roll it out.

OP posts:

Tarla · 02/12/2016 20:40

It does exist in part to protect the children, it is not there simply for herd immunity. There have been relatively recent strains of flu that have had more serious complications in younger people than previous strains. While the spray doesn't provide 100% protection it can mean that if your child does still contract the flu, they have it more mildly than they would have done without the vaccine and they fight it off faster.

Soubriquet · 02/12/2016 20:41

I see your point there

If any child had a reaction in a doctor's office there's a quicker response. On the other hand, this does allow more children to get the vaccine for parents who don't have time or aren't bothered by it

So I'm on the fence

I took my 3 year old to have it done and I would happily let her have it in school too

Original poster

lovelyredshoes · 02/12/2016 20:42

Tarla, I hear what you are saying. I'm only being a bit frothy now because too many people are commenting without having read the post/petition points. I'm anti nasal spray, not anti flu jab because that is deactivated, should people wish to get it. I don't anymore.

I understand the risk is 'small', but if you think a junior school may have 250 having the vaccine and 50 not - the very numbers would say that the amount of virus floating around is more than quadrupled. I do hear your view though - thanks.

OP posts:

Shenanagins · 02/12/2016 20:44

Are you against all vaccination programmes within schools or just this one?

If it's the former, well these have been in place since I was at school and presumably because it maximises the number of recipients.

Mrsmorton · 02/12/2016 20:45

So you would genuinely rather tie up a nurse in a GP surgery for hours and hours whilst parents took time off work to take their children to an appointment which probably at least 5% of people will miss...

You may want to have a think about the second and third order effects of that OP. Time off work, transport (private or public), additional unnecessary journeys, time off school, nurse only able to administer vaccinations (nb, bank / trust nurses often used for vaccination programmes in schools rather than those employed by GPs), wasted appointments and so on.

Still not quite certain why the additional difficulty in playing your part in the community would be a good thing. The rights/responsibility balance is all to fuck these days.

FestiveBiscuits · 02/12/2016 20:46

I don't like the consent issue either, as unless you object you ur child is included.

Tarla · 02/12/2016 20:48

If a child at school had a reaction then the medical person (in this case the school nurse) would call an ambulance and begin the appropriate first aid.

If a child had a reaction at a GP surgery, the medical person (usually whichever member of the medical staff is with them at the time) would call an ambulance and begin the appropriate first aid.

Blossomdeary · 02/12/2016 20:48

You can opt out if you wish.

It is a very very good thing that this is being offered in schools. There are many children from disadvantaged homes who are at the highest risk for infections who would not otherwise receive this protection. I am sure that rolling this out via schools is sensible and cost effective; a responsible use of NHS funds.

As long as parents can opt their children out it is fine.

It is not just to protect the individual child, but also their younger siblings or babies. Flu vaccine is always a bit hit and miss because the scientists have to make their best guess from the evidence as to which strain might appear each year.

This petition is such a pain. Some people do not know how lucky we all are with our wonderful NHS and preventive programmes. Let us celebrate this.

Original poster

lovelyredshoes · 02/12/2016 20:49

HeyRoly 'However, no one is allowed to question the NHS vaccination programme on MN unless you want a massive flaming.'

Yep - I was pretty prepared :-)
Do I get bonus points for mentioning state and independent sectors?

OP posts:

Tarla · 02/12/2016 20:51

I don't like the consent issue either, as unless you object you ur child is included.

No, they aren't.

A former came home with DS last week. If you want your child to have the spray you have to fill it in and send it back to school. If you don't want it you simply don't return the form. Printed several times on the form in a bold typeface and several times in the accompanying letter are words to the effect of "if you don't return the form, your child cannot be vaccinated".

StripyHorse · 02/12/2016 20:51

FestiveBiscuits it may be different in your area but here you have to sign the consent form for your child to have it. No form = no vaccine whether this is because you object, or forgot, or the form got lost etc.

Flowerpower321 · 02/12/2016 20:52

YABVU and I say that as someone who's on immune suppressants and has a child who will be having the nasal spray- I've had the vaccine myself so it is not an issue!

FestiveBiscuits · 02/12/2016 20:53

No we were given the choice of returning a form to opt out, which feels wrong to me as letters home sometimes go missing.

BarbieBrightSide · 02/12/2016 20:54

I didn't consent for my dc to have this pre school age because I felt that it had been misleadingly promoted. (My children have had all other vaccines to date, but I was uncomfortable with this being promoted as helping to prevent my dc getting flu themselves rather than reducing spread in the wider community, which is actually why the under 18s have been targeted if I understand correctly). Since the DC have been at school and of a suitable age, they have had it at school.

I have no issue with vaccines being given in schools, they are administered by nurses.

Copied from the Fluenz data sheet:

Vaccine recipients should be informed that Fluenz Tetra is an attenuated live virus vaccine and has the potential for transmission to immunocompromised contacts. Vaccine recipients should attempt to avoid, whenever possible, close association with severely immunocompromised individuals (e.g. bone marrow transplant recipients requiring isolation) for 1-2 weeks following vaccination. Peak incidence of vaccine virus recovery occurred 2-3 days post-vaccination in Fluenz clinical studies. In circumstances where contact with severely immunocompromised individuals is unavoidable, the potential risk of transmission of the influenza vaccine virus should be weighed against the risk of acquiring and transmitting wild-type influenza virus.

exLtEveDallas · 02/12/2016 20:54

275 children in our school. Roughly 130 in KS1 (not EY). 5 chose not to have it. 1 refused on the day (scared). No side effects, no reports of flu. Delivered by 3 nurses in a controlled and familiar environment. Better for the child I think, to have it somewhere they know, surrounded by people they know and their peers all being treated the same.

exLtEveDallas · 02/12/2016 20:56

And yes, you have to consent to get it. They also asked for forms to be returned if non-consenting and said they would take the child's name off the following year if requested.

No form, no spray.

Original poster

lovelyredshoes · 02/12/2016 20:57

Blossomdeary - thanks for your reply, but the efficacy of the Nasal Flu Vaccine is not really that great, unless you have figures that will show me otherwise. So what are we celebrating? Has there been a reduction in deaths or people in hospital since flu vaccines have been rolled out?
I'm open to hear it from anyone. I stopped going for the jab as it made me ill every time, and the year I had flu I'd have caught it with or witout vaccine.

I'm all for vaccines that are safe and work and are given in proper medical facilities. Or shops. But not in buildings where there are hundreds of children together mixing together closely with children or adults who haven't had it. Why not just give a deactivated jab and not an active spray?

OP posts:

0AliasGrace0 · 02/12/2016 20:58

A couple of years a go my DD wasn't allowed the nasal version due to me being on immuno suppressants. Poor thing got jabbed instead...I felt quite bad about that.

Sleepybeanbump · 02/12/2016 20:59

Okay I don't know anything about this but I can read and understand the point OP is making. It's really not hard....

EweAreHere · 02/12/2016 21:00

The risks are low.
It is more effective than jabs in young children.
The NHS doesn't happily fund things that are proven ineffective.
You can opt out.
It is a heck of lot easier and cheaper to do this en masse in schools than having parents take time out to be seen one at a time, slowly, in a GPs surgery, which probably don't have the time slots available.

Original poster

lovelyredshoes · 02/12/2016 21:00

Yes, there was a consent form with ours. I didn't consent and made my feelings clear in the section that asked 'if not, why not?'. Answer - because if I want the vaccine I will go to the doctors or medical centre and not a school.

OP posts:

Mrsmorton · 02/12/2016 21:01

Shops...

EweAreHere · 02/12/2016 21:02

In fact, parents don't 'opt out'. They opt in. Without the consent forms being signed and checked, the flu vaccination isn't given to those children.

Mrsmorton · 02/12/2016 21:03

Just making sure you wring your last few tax pence out of the NHS... slow handclap OP. Economy of scale entirely lost on you.

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