Who is BU? DP ExW or me - Christmas edition!

[disgustedoftwells]

I'll try my best to get to the crux of the matter without drip-feeding too much.

DP and ExW divorced over 10 years ago when their son was 1. DP was making insane money at the time and ordered to pay just under £2,000 a month to ExW for child-support (including £50,000 maintenance a year before she re-married) + mortgage free house. DP wants to be the best dad he can and whilst he no longer earns an insane salary, he still pays ridiculous monthly child-support AND private school fees. We are just about managing on the rest of our incomes but it's been a bone of contention for quite some time (but that's for another thread!).

For Christmas DPs son has asked his mum for a very expensive gift around £400 (I think a playstation or iPhone or something like that. Didn't really ask for details). DS ExW has rung DP and asked to spilt the money for the gift and shall we go over their place on Christmas morning (with her current husband and two other children) to open the present?

Um... no. This year is our year to have DPs son and I don't want to spend my Christmas morning at 'her' house (which DP paid for) waiting for son to open a present from "all of us". Surely we should buy him a separate gift from DP and I, and ExW should buy him the large gift with the money DP gives her. It's more than enough! And DPs son should not spend Christmas morning at his mum's house but rather our house as its 'our' year.

AIBU in asking her to pay for the big gift and not go over on Christmas morning?

OP, suggest you move this to step-parenting if you want usable advice.

Well yes Daily if the OP wants to hear that her DH should cut way back on maintenance in order to make things fairer for their theoretical non existent future children then it might be an idea to get it moved to Step parenting. Maintenance is often a major cause of friction in new partnerships.

What sort of "usable" advice would you recommend? Genuine question btw.

at 'her' house (which DP paid for)

What's all this bollocks with the inverted commas? It's her house, that's all. Who "paid" for it is also irrelevant as it's just part of the divorce settlement and her house. This just makes you sound bitter and jealous and clouds the issue about the Christmas present,

Blended families don't blend by taking away support from the child already in existence. That is a major source of friction and fragments parent-child relationships

DM but either scenario has the potential for conflict and resentment though. Because if you had to remove your DSD from private school she is just as likely to be resentful that she has to change school, leave her friends etc because her other half or step siblings can't go to private schools as well. It's a no win situation if future finance is not a certainty.

I can't give you an opinion on the Christmas morning issue OP, except to say at least you are invited. I wasn't welcome by DH's exP.

However, I understand how you might feel bitter and resentful at the money situation. I'm not saying that's the right thing to be but we are all human and have emotions.
My now DH has a DD with exP. She's grown up now but was 13 when we got together 12 yrs ago. DH earned decent money when we moved in together and we had no children. He gave exP around £50k when they split for her to use a deposit towards a new home for her and DD. He also paid generous maintenance.

Fast forward a couple of yrs and after a year of TTC, I got pregnant with DD. exP cried when she found out.
DH discussed with exP and they agreed a new maintenance payment. ExP wasn't happy but DH had to also think about his new DD. ExP had to cut her cloth accordingly. StepDD was also old enough by then to understand why mum didn't have so much money coming in. ExP had to go and get a job (shock, horror!!)

The point I am making is you can only work on what is now. At the moment, your DP pays for a lifestyle. Don't worry about it, as long as he can afford it. If you want kids, then you and DP need to agree to when start trying but realistically he can only renegotiate his maintenance if you get pregnant. That's when he has to tell exW that he can afford x, and if DS still needs to go to private school, she'll have to make up the difference. She could get a job perhaps?

OP, suggest you move this to step-parenting if you want usable advice

Because of course nobody who uses any other sections of MN could possibly be a step parent

She could get a job perhaps?

How do you know she doesn't already have a job?

Why can't the op earn more money if she wants to send her future child to private school?

Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

yes I quite agree chipmunk, dd1 doesn't know it but she would certainly have been privately educated all through if dd2 hadn't been a very unexpected and welcome surprise, financially, the second child has certainly made dd1's living standard smaller. My cousins - one was privately educated, one was not, same family, the one that went to a state school has done far, far better in life. This doesn't just happen in step families.

So OP your DSS is 11 now, and you aren't currently pregnant? When are you planning on starting a family, because if it's not for another year or so, it's worth noting you only have 7 years left of paying out such large sums for DSS, it could well be your DSS leaving private school will coinside with a DC of yours starting school, so if you want to go private, it'll be an option.

It might be worth having a chat with your DP about plans around having any DCs together, particularly, when will he stop paying child maintenance, is it at 18? Assume he'll start just giving money directly to DSS if he goes to uni.

If you left DP, would he be able to continue to pay out high levels of CM?

That's true chipmunk however most families will plan how many children they have together and will weigh up the factors jointly. If you can only afford private schooling for one and choose to go down that route then you'd probably only choose to have one child.

In the second family situation decisions taken by the second relationship massively impact on the first. There is no joint discussion just a 'this is happening deal with it' message.

Therefore it's much more complex than just a matter of making room for another child.

I'm a stepparent and I couldn't really get worked up about either the present thing or the going round there thing, unless it was going to interfere with other arrangements that had already been made eg to go and stay with family or have family round on Xmas morning. But if we were just having Christmas on our own and lived nearby, I'd be happy to pop round.

The overall money situation is more difficult. I have to say I probably don't want children, but even I started to get all panicky when DP and his ex were considering sending DSS to private school because I was thinking 'but then if we had children we couldn't afford to send them too!". It's weird. Do you and DH have joint finances / definitely want to have children?

My DH's ex is the nutty type who shouts at us in the street. She'd invite us round to her house when hell froze over. AIBU to think you should be grateful you have an amenable relationship with her?

I earn enough to pay 5 sets of school fees and I am female. Just because you are female doesn't mean you cannot earn what your partner used to when he divorced. Get out there and earn your own money. Never live off male earnings - it never pays off.

Clearly if this father cannot afford a second hild he should not have one. No reason his first child should suffer because the parents split up.

You see, what we did in this situation was a joint gift when it was something big, but when it was DH's ex's year to have DSS on Christmas Day he opened his presents there, including the joint gift, then brought it home with him when he came home, and on alternate years when he stayed at home at Christmas, he opened all presents here.

However. DH had full custody and DSS only saw his mum once a month. She paid maintenance. (Not at that rate though!) Maintenance however is not about gifts, it's about the living costs for your child - so I think you are being a bit unreasonable.

Why not chip in together for the gift and have him open it at your house, but invite the ex over for a bit if that keeps the peace.

You should definitely get the maintenance payment reassessed. If your DP was still with his first wife, and his salary reduced, then there would be less money to go round, and less to spend on the child. It’s simple economics.

This principle shouldn’t change just because they are now divorced – heaven forbid he lost his job, there would be no way he could pay at the previously agreed level. Maintenance payments are surely a percentage of income, not “set-in-stone/ring-fenced-against-change” amounts? A 'together' family would have to adjust to a tighter budget, not sure why people think a separated family is any different?

enormous - but given the age of the DSS (11), then it my not be a case of not being able to afford a 2nd child, as if they do wait another couple of years, then they would only have 1 year with both DSS and DC at school - the reception year is usually the cheapest/most affordable for private schools and could be saved for now. But that would take a discussion about finances, could the OP and her DP afford for her to have a maternity leave and still pay over the odds for childsupport?

Imagine it was the other way around. Dh was paying for private school for current partners kids but not for child from prev marriage - there would be uproar on the thread. OP's dh can't keep the same level of maintenance for the dss if they have kids, not when he can barely afford it now, so like previous posters have said he should adjust the family budget accordingly. If that means less money for dss then so be it, private school and playstations are luxuries not necessities.

unless I'm reading it wrong dailymail the second set of children has not happened. If the Dh has money for the school fees and half a playstation then I can't see a problem tbh. I read it to mean he used to pay lots of maintenance plus child maintenance, which he doesn't now (just pays child maintenance as exw remarried?)
If he's still earning a reasonable salary and can afford it then that's his legal obligation to ds1. The second wife knew what she was taking on. Of course she'd rather a bit more money and not to go to exw on Christmas day, but the ds comes first.

That is entirely different though DM because the arrangement for maintenance was made before the OP and the DP got together. There is an argument to be had in this instance as to why the child was enrolled in private school after he and his ex had split, but presumably that was something they agreed together.

But ultimately if you get together with someone and your finances are such that you can't afford to have children, then you don't have children. Regardless of why your finances are in the state they are. The reality here is that when there are already children in the equation then consideration needs to be given as to whether it is pheasible to have more. And sometimes it isn't. But as I said upthread, that is the price you pay when you enter into a relationship with a man who has children and who is paying maintenance for those children. That arrangement is made at the time of the split, a new partner does not alter that fact. Existing children should always be a priority over as yet not conceived ones.

For me it's very simple. If the man has an income and maintanence goes out of that income, then his income into the household budget is whatever's left. The rest is gone, much like tax or NI. Not the business of the new partner how much maintenance he's paying.

What is just making ends meet?

There is wide variation in that phrase.

On the info given he is still earning a lot of monies - £2000pcm + school fees probably about £1000pcm.

If I read this correctly, the £2k per month maintenance was agreed at the point on the split, when he was earning a lot more than he does now.

And assuming that a maintenance payment is a contribution towards the child’s upkeep, ie mum should be contributing too, I’m wondering what on earth it’s all spent on, especially if school fees are paid separately.

Tiger totally agree with you. If you put your financial security in the hands of another a lot of choices will be taken away from you.