To think those who have overcome infertility should be more mindful of those still struggling?

[Pinkheels]

Appreciate the words overcoming/struggling don't quite capture the sheer shittiness of infertility but here goes!

Hi everyone, I'm pinkheels and I've been trying to conceive for the last 4 years. 3 failed IVF cycles later, and partway theough my 4th (and most likely last) I've relied on the absolutely incredible support of some of the most fantastic women on here. I guess like most things in life, if you haven't gone through something then you don't quite appreciate how difficult it may be. I've lost count of the times people have made glib comments about how I should just relax, how their neighbours best friends nephews cousin's wife's twice removed took a magical supplement and is now pregnant, how stress won't get me anywhere, and how if it all fails I can "just" adopt. I get the fact that not everyone understands the pain, the struggle to pretend everything is ok, the heartbreak of repeated failure time after time, the incredible cost, the indignity, etc etc. if anything I've made my peace with that but, a big BUT, I see people who have gone through the same difficulties, who are lucky enough to become pregnant, suddenly become like everyone else, who lose all sense of empathy and sensitivity, who over share their pregnancy details, who seem to think their way is the only way, and feel entitled to pass judgement/give advice. I know I'm probably coming across as bitter or jealous (which I can genuinely say I'm not) but I do think those who have been through it should perhaps have a little more sensitivity and perhaps appreciate their stealth boasts belong to the pregnancy threads rather than the infertility ones.

And to be fair to the people on the infertility thread having just read it, nobody is doing that. It's just details of normal things that happen in pregnancy that unfortunately are still hard to read for people who want to be pregnant but aren't.

Unfortunately wider society doesn't really acknowledge the pain of infertility and it's something people seem to think they have the right to comment on and people shouldxjust get over it. Infertility threads are a safe haven of not being judged for grieving and not being given shit unhelpful advice. There should be a rule of a simple pregnancy announcement then as pp suggested an early pregnancy after infertility/losses thread. I'm sure people think they are just offering hope but we all know some one else's infertility journey has no bearing on your own chances. Even your own previous successful pregnancy has no bearing on future ones!

northern actually most of us who have been lucky enough to get pregnant are happy to leave the infertility thread and go to the pg after infertility thread, because we know how hard it is for those still struggling. As icy said what we are going through now is nothing to what they are going through, so we can and should be sensitive.

I agree with you pinkwheels. I lurk on the thread you mentioned and must admit I winced at a couple of posts recently that did seem a tad insensitive. There's another thread I'm on where only one person has been successful and they keep coming back with pregnancy updates - the thread has basically died.

That said, the vast majority of people who post in infertility are sensitive. They post their bfp (which we're all delighted about), answer any questions and then discuss scans and whatever on banana's pregnancy after infertility thread. When they come back onto the infertility board it's to give support to those still going through the mill. The pregnancy after infertility thread is great because I can follow the progress of those that I know when I'm feeling strong enough to read about it.

Purple, I see your point about raising it in the thread itself and maybe it is bad form to discuss other threads on here, but sometimes you don't know if it's just you being bitter (hence AIBU). Once on a thread, after a flurry of bfps, one of the lucky ones asked outright how it felt - and a brave person said that major milestones were good, but daily updates did start to get a bit difficult. And we all agreed, but I'm not sure anyone would feel brave enough posting that if the question hadn't been posed - like you were raining on someone's parade or something.

I agree with the principle of not posting regular pregnancy updates on infertility threads BUT I think it's incredibly insensitive to post here about a specific thread that leaves individuals that on that thread (myself included) feeling paranoid and worried that we've inadvertently upset others. I have already re-joined the pregnancy after infertility thread but wasn't expecting to be booted off Infertility threads just 2 days after a BFP. I've been TTC for 4 years, this is my 3rd IVF cycle, including a late second trimester loss, and I've been very grateful for the support that I've received from people that actually understand.

Blueroses wishing you all the best with your pregnancy. There absolutely shouldn't be any booting off because everybody's feelings are important. You don't cease to need support once you have a bfp and whilst those who are pregnant should be sensitive to those who aren't, those who aren't should be sensitive to those who are as well.

I sort of know what you mean OP but I do feel that friends who have got pregnant after treatment are really just that much more excited after the struggle that any overstating is not deliberate but just an overspill of absolute joy and that I can understand.

What pisses me off is family who know that I've gone through years of treatment and no success yet andthey do big pregnancy announcements to my face then wonder why I'm upset and then have a go at me.....when it pointed out a text or email would have been better I get launched at and accused of ruining happy news :(

Can't win really with this infertility thing it's rubbish all round. At least with unintentional boasting it gives me hope

We all need to be mindful of everything in life. There are always people out there who are in a worse situation that you. I find when something annoys me that I should bear that in mind.

I've been unable to conceive a second DC. IVF didn't work, it's sad for us all. However, I don't begrudge other women celebrating their baby joy and I'm happy to share in their pregnancy, birth and baby joy story - it's the closest thing I'll get to experiencing it all again and it makes me feel really happy. I'd be very sad and feel very left out if they didn't feel they could share it with me.

I too have secondary infertility. Ten years ago I didn't believe it was a 'thing' and I certainly didn't understand the sadness that could be involved. I have a wonderful son, conceived naturally, but oh how life has laughed at my efforts to conceive since. We have perfect test results, but not a sniff, not a whisper of a pregnancy. £££ at fertility clinics, four years and still nothing. I am 41 and that life window seems to have closed for me.

I was heading towards depression earlier this year and still find it hard to see pregnant women (babies are ok, I love babies!), but I have (almost) managed to reconcile myself, to count my blessings and enjoy what I have.

I am now horribly aware of what infertility means and hope to go through life from here on in, a slightly wiser, more sensitive person in that respect. I have been on the 'mind-numbing boredom of infertility threads' and there are people there for whom I wish for a successful pregnancy almost as much as I wanted it for myself.

However, issues don't go away when one is no longer affected by them and I think there are things that everyone can do (regardless of their own fertility status) to make life a bit easier for those going through infertility: challenge crassness and tactlessness around infertility when you witness it; donate to charities around infertility, miscarriage and neonatal death; campaign for more equitable funding to avoid the postcode lottery; show sensitivity on social media... I recently managed to challenge a 'funny' news item being circulated. I probably only changed one person's point of view, but it is still something....

to anyone on here going through it.

Chip in, be supportive, a quick update if asked, but a running commentary is NOT appropriate. Yes the early days and weeks after a bfp are a limbo but boo fucking hoo you know? being in post bfp limbo land is a million times better than being un-pregnant and barren.

I'm an outsider to this issue, so apologies if I'm wrong, but isn't part of the problem here that infertility is actually lots of different things with different manifestations? Some women can't conceive; others can do so relatively easily but then can't sustain the pregnancy. To the former group getting a BFP is an enviable end to infertility, but to those with recurrent miscarriage early pregnancy is part of infertility not the end of it, so they don't see talking about it as bragging about good fortune.

Chip in, be supportive, a quick update if asked, but a running commentary is NOT appropriate. Yes the early days and weeks after a bfp are a limbo but boo fucking hoo you know? being in post bfp limbo land is a million times better than being un-pregnant and barren.

This is my two penneth: Infertility threads are all different IME. You get some with a core 7 or 8 very long term strugglers who post for years together with a just few newbies who come and go again within a few months (with or without their BFP). And you get some threads with loads and loads of different comers and goers with a big mix of struggling and baby updates and scans.

Personally i TTCd for 5 years and needed a hard core barren board where 90% of the posters had practically no hope of conceiving because i was so twisted and painful inside that i could not have bourne pregnancy updates and scan pics. (had enough of that all round me in 'real life'.) IIRC there were 6 of us 'old timers'. 2 of the ladies were constantly getting a BFP only to loose it again before the 6 week point. Over and over again. We all held the hands of those posters each time. Never would have expected them to have gone away each time. The rest of us never got a blip.

For 5 years i held the hands of everyone who came to that thread - long term or short. I shared my ridiculous stories of my own home grown struggles (couldn't afford any IVF, lots and lots of tears plus a bit of laughter sometimes). Then the unimaginable happened and I got a BFP. An actual BFP! Naturally after 5 years of TTC!

I offered to leave. The other ladies wouldn't have it. I felt AWFUL posting. I didn't know what to say. I carried on offering support and just added little updates occasionally as an afterthought when people asked. I WISH i had had access to a preg after struggling board. I was in bits with worry. At around the 6 month mark i stopped posting all together but kept watching. The thread died about 6 months after that :(

Two had given up, one had adopted, one had split with her DH over it all and it was out of her hands, another had been told she was just unable to conceive and she couldn't afford IVF. How sad i was to see that old thread die.

to all those on the barren bandwagon. I KNOW how hard it is - look after yourselves x

Gosh, it's a tough one. It took us 2 years 8 months to conceive DD (34 cycles I believe). We had male factor infertility which was actually reversible. We were told our best chance of conceiving was IVF and we about to go on the waiting list when I got pregnant.

From about 1 year TTC I joined the BESH on MN, an invaluable source of support, knowledge and sarcasm! It was in conception but I believe moved to infertility more recently. When someone got pregnant, we were all delighted for them. But like 'in your face, infertility!'. It was such a scary thing to be pregnant after long term trying that we supported those who were and then when we felt ready, we would move to the PESH in antenatal clubs when we felt ready. It wouldn't be fair to keep updating with pregnancy symptoms long term. We never had any Just relax type advice on those threads but they'd have got short shrift if they did!

I did and still do find the Just relax brigade so irritating! How many times I gritted my teeth at unsolicited, unhelpful advice! When there is a medical reason for infertility, or even unexplained infertility, relaxing, going on holiday, getting drunk (!) is not the solution! It often comes from people who TTC for a relatively short time too. I know it's a minefield but I agree with you pinkheels, a little sensitivity goes a long way.

Firstly blue, I'd like to apologise for making you feel paranoid- naming a particular thread like that was bad form. For the others who have commented on why I am taking exception to something and posting here, it's not because I'm having a sneaky bitch, I guess I genuinely wasn't sure if I was being unreasonable/bitter or if there was some validity in how I feel. I wanted to know how others felt. I was a keen lurker/sometimes contributer to a few infertility threads and like others who have posted, I don't feel very welcome/able to take part/able to face up to the detailed pregnancy chat. That's not to say that anyone should be banished or told to go on another thread- I guess perhaps we need to think about some broad guidelines for posters to make sure there is some sensitivity whilst at the same time allowing everyone, no matter what stage they are going through to be able to access support from others in the same boat.