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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think 335,000 extra people coming to the UK in a year is too high

932 replies

jdoe8 · 01/12/2016 10:04

Where will they all live? What jobs will they all do? I know it may help GDP, but that is irrelevant as GDP per head is the important thing.

It does seem to be race to the bottom with more part time work , uber type work and the country is borrowing more and more and the national debt is 35k per head now.

OP posts:
Sobachka · 03/12/2016 17:21

So really they shouldn't be here imo if they have no housing.

A forward-thinking government would have foreseen the massive social problems caused by freedom of movement and limited it from the outset. Now it really is a case of bolting the stable door.

justicewomen · 03/12/2016 17:25

The debate was really good and thoughtful for a while but is going back to the inconsistency of facts to suit agenda. We are now onto immigrants take all the housing but are all homeless/ in shelters etc. Which is it?

We had the same debate in the pre EU 1960s- and it does not change. We had the spectacle on QT earlier this year of a young man from Felixstowe claiming you could not leave your house without just seeing migrants. In a town where there are almost no migrants!

We cannot make sensible economic policies based on fear mongering and perception.

So for example people say that they want Australian style migration policy. Fine except the evidence is that it might not reduce migration numbers (may actually increase them) and will add significantly to the cost/ red tape so hated by companies so cost of living will rise. Will that satisfy you?

Sobachka · 03/12/2016 17:27

oops, it's the horse that's bolted Wink

Sobachka · 03/12/2016 17:42

immigrants take all the housing but are all homeless/ in shelters etc. Which is it?

Freedom of movement is causing a significant increase in demand on extremely limited social housing stock. EU nationals also represent a large proportion of the homeless population of this country.

user1480182169 · 03/12/2016 17:48

Freedom of movement is causing a significant increase in demand on extremely limited social housing stock. EU nationals also represent a large proportion of the homeless population of this country

Source for these obviously wildly inaccurate statements?

Matador · 03/12/2016 17:54

Is it just me or is there a tendency for certain types of posters to form an echo chamber at the end of threads like these once everyone else has moved on? It seemed to happen with a lot of the Brexit ones too. Is it saddos who get their friends to join them? Is it sockpuppetry? Is there an element of astroturfing?

Sobachka · 03/12/2016 17:54

Source?

Real life observation.

justicewomen · 03/12/2016 17:57

Except that 91% of new social housing tenancies got to UK nationals-
www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/465815/Social_housing_lettings_in_England_2014-15.pdf

The real problems for everyone in housing are caused by sell off of social housing, greater longevity of life and households getting smaller due to divorce and later marriage

www.theguardian.com/housing-network/2016/jan/25/is-immigration-causing-the-uk-housing-crisis

woodhill · 03/12/2016 17:57

I'm watching Question Time from Thursday echoing our discussion.

Sorry, there is nothing wrong with my eyes, the dc at the school in my road for example

justicewomen · 03/12/2016 17:59

*Source?

Real life observation*

You cannot make sensible policy based on anecdote alone.

justicewomen · 03/12/2016 18:03

Woodhill

Precisely how many of those children are EU migrants (as against non-EU migrants, BAME children of UK citizens etc) and how representative is it of your area/region?

Without any real facts, your anecdote takes us nowhere

user1480182169 · 03/12/2016 18:06

Real life observation

You know the demographics of both homeless people AND social housing for the whole UK, based just on real life observation? Wow that is impressive.

Or it would be if you weren't so epically full of shit.

myfavouritecolourispurple · 03/12/2016 18:07

So for example people say that they want Australian style migration policy. Fine except the evidence is that it might not reduce migration numbers (may actually increase them) and will add significantly to the cost/ red tape so hated by companies so cost of living will rise. Will that satisfy you

Well at least there would be a policy. I agree - certainly in Western Australia the population seems to be increasing very quickly and when I was there they were building lots of new houses BUT ALSO INFRASTRUCTURE.

Also, they have easier immigration options for people who will live in less popular areas . We could potentially do the same though I'm not quite sure how you'd police it in a country of our size.

I'm not sure why it would add to red tape because the person would obtain the work/residency permit before they came here. If a company wants a specific person they already have red tape to bring that person over (if they're not from the EU). And it does not have to increase numbers because you let so many in and then you say no more for that skill for that year. Yes it is arbitrary but it can work.

It would also be good if businesses would invest more in training and development themselves and not just take people from overseas all the time. or moan about schools not teaching particular things. Give a little less to your shareholders and invest more in your people. The best organisations already do this. And surely you can do some forecasting of what you need? Too many businesses work on a massively short-term basis.

woodhill · 03/12/2016 18:07

I really don't know what to say, the whole demographic of the area has definitely changed in the last 20 years'.

user1480182169 · 03/12/2016 18:08

Sorry, there is nothing wrong with my eyes, the dc at the school in my road for exampe

You can tell where childrens parents come from and what kind of housing they live in from looking at them on their way to school?
This just gets better. Any more super powers?

myfavouritecolourispurple · 03/12/2016 18:09

there is nothing wrong with my eyes, the dc at the school in my road for example

The majority of EU citizens moving to the UK are of white heritage. So how can you tell where they are from? If you are seeing lots of non-white children they are more likely to be British born than from an EU country.

justicewomen · 03/12/2016 18:10

I must admit I am starting to get more frustrated.

You complain you cannot have a discussion about immigration without people shouting racist. I give you one and all I am getting back now is various unevidenced soundbites of effectively "immigration is bad/we are full up" with no real analysis of whether it is true and if so how you address it without destroying the economy .

If you are going to change economic policy of the last 40 years at least have the courtesy to do it thoughtfully

Sobachka · 03/12/2016 18:10

problems for everyone in housing are caused by sell off of social housing

I agree, introducing the right-to-buy was a crime against society.

Sobachka · 03/12/2016 18:18

all I am getting back now is various unevidenced soundbites of effectively "immigration is bad/we are full up" with no real analysis of whether it is true

2016: The year they learned to listen?

woodhill · 03/12/2016 18:19

I'm just trying to say how too much immigration is impacting on the local area as the school has expanded in the last 2 years' and the traffic in the local area is appalling.

There are positives from immigration but I think we need to seriously reduce it from now on and try and use whoever is already here.

I don't think it is fair on the young people here who are starting out in life.

EnormousTiger · 03/12/2016 18:25

It varies a lot around the country. The whole demographic has totally cahnged in some places. My son is the only white boy in his class (and of course I agree that some of the non white boys have been born here but most have non English born parents) and there is nothing wrong with that but it is a hugely changed demographic and a lot of those people have utterly different values - sisters serve brothers at home, even standing up whilst men eat, girls are placed in marriage, women have fewer careers, women cover their bodies, girls at the locla primary school cover their heads. IT is a bit like moving Victorian England back here as if we moved to rural Pakistan without actually moving. A good few of those people are homophobic too.

However many of them are hard working and good people and plenty will change to our different liberal Western values and most just want to get on with hard work and live in peace.

But to suggest the demographics have not changed in 20 years in some parts of the UK is not true. They have. In other areas (not mine) there are lots of Poles, Catholic, again hard working, very skilled, often want to m ove back home eventually, not paticularly sexist. So in other words it is very hard to generalise. Then there are all the French in Kensington who are culturally much more similar. All put a burden on London housing however and school places but we benefit from the mix of people and their hard work so they are tough issues for the nation.

We are only crowded in the areas where there are jobs. My spiritual homeland is Northumberland and parts of NW scotland too and those places do not have many people in them at all but then nor is there much work.

Sobachka · 03/12/2016 18:32

Lots of the comments on this thread are ridiculous but suggesting that Woodhill can't tell the difference between white British and Eastern European...

woodhill · 03/12/2016 18:50

Thanks Sob and I'm sure they are very nice individually but can we carry on with the high amount of immigration to the UK?

Parker231 · 03/12/2016 19:10

We need immigration- the Uk gains skills and experience we don't have here - how do you think the NHS is run? The number of people from countries such as Syria which the UK has helped is disgustingly low - it's embarrassing that a rich country like the UK does so little to help.

justicewomen · 03/12/2016 19:26

2016: The year they learned to listen?

I take that to be a dig against people like me?
Are the opponents of immigration on here listening to me - I am seeking to evidence my opinions and all I get in return (from many on here) is short anecdotes and soundbites- which in economic planning terms is not useful