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Original poster

To think 335,000 extra people coming to the UK in a year is too high

932 replies

jdoe8 · 01/12/2016 10:04

Where will they all live? What jobs will they all do? I know it may help GDP, but that is irrelevant as GDP per head is the important thing.

It does seem to be race to the bottom with more part time work , uber type work and the country is borrowing more and more and the national debt is 35k per head now.

OP posts:
GraceGrape · 01/12/2016 19:16

Immigrants are attracted to work in successful economies. There is likely to be a fall in immigration as our economy becomes less attractive.

sportinguista · 01/12/2016 19:17

My mum would have been over 70 now, had she lived. She worked all through my childhood and before. She did some really shitty jobs, stapling cardboard boxes, peeling potatoes, cleaning at a coal yard ( the offices not the coal!) they were horrible dirty jobs. And she was by far not the only one, most of my friend's mums worked, very few could afford not to. Still look on the bright side by dying she saved you all from having to contribute to her pension!

thisisafakename · 01/12/2016 19:17

my parents were NOT migrants - they were Stateless Refugees

I guess the point made is that without this country's generosity in accepting your parents to live here (because, stateless or not, they were not born citizens of the UK). Therefore, it seems odd to take a strong anti-immigrant stance and blame numerous social problems on those who have moved here for a better life or have arrived due to circumstances beyond their control (e.g. like your parents). I think that with that background, I would perhaps be a little bit more broad-minded.

SouthallGirl · 01/12/2016 19:17

FruitCider Home Office has strict definitions and over the years the words may have changed, but the fact is my parents did not choose to leave their country. Your mother chose to leave her country, my parents did not. They were captured and taken to another country.

Migrant means someone who has left their country willingly for reasons unconnected with war, and now lives elsewhere.

Refugee means someone who feels their life is in ongoing danger and has to leave their country.

My parents did neither.

thisisafakename · 01/12/2016 19:19

I guess the point made is that without this country's generosity in accepting your parents to live here (because, stateless or not, they were not born citizens of the UK), you would not have been born here or had the opportunities that you now take for granted.

Sorry, didn't finish that sentence off properly.

yeOldeTrout · 01/12/2016 19:19

"Forced migrant" is the term you want, Southall.

sportinguista · 01/12/2016 19:19

We had the same VCR from when I was around 12 till when I was around 18, it kept getting stuck on tapes but my dad kept putting WD40 in it because he though that would work. It had more WD40 in it than bloody Halfords.

I guess the symbol may now need to be upgraded to 4k or 5k TV and curved.

FruitCider · 01/12/2016 19:22

Your mother chose to leave her country, my parents did not. They were captured and taken to another country.

Ummm... both of my parents are political refugees. I was born abroad and came to the uk as a child when my parents claimed asylum. Not really sure why you think my mother is British?

SouthallGirl · 01/12/2016 19:23

thisisafakename - I am broadminded, and I know the difference between refugee and someone who just fancies moving to another country and instead of getting processed in the usual normal way, decides he knows best and goes renegade, lives in a camp, throws rocks at passing vehicles and attempts to storm lorries.

FruitCider · 01/12/2016 19:24

Definition of migrant.

To think 335,000 extra people coming to the UK in a year is too high
justicewomen · 01/12/2016 19:25

I am not saying most British people don't work don't work hard.

Im saying that in my area unemployment rates are very low, many vacancies are unfilled. Those vacancies (skilled and unskilled) are now taken by young, mobile , often well educated migrants who come here to improve their English, earn money and in some cases, to escape issues at home.

They are not taken often by internal migrants from other parts of the UK. Why that is the case is complex- those people have issues often related to health, housing, lack of relevant skills, effect on stability of benefit income,
So, for example, there is a real shortage of HGV drivers win the UK as the age profile of existing drivers is approaching retirement. Some are filled by Eastern Europeans but they are now choosing better paid jobs in Germany/Scandanavia. The FTA are running a campaign to recruit www.fta.co.uk/media_and_campaigns/campaigns/driver_shortage.html
A better response than complaining about migrants would be to provide loans to UK unemployed people to get HGV licences- but it is easier to blame migrants

FruitCider · 01/12/2016 19:27

Sorry. I now understand. You are stating my parents fled danger through choice. My bad.

thisisafakename · 01/12/2016 19:28

I am broadminded, and I know the difference between refugee and someone who just fancies moving to another country and instead of getting processed in the usual normal way, decides he knows best and goes renegade, lives in a camp, throws rocks at passing vehicles and attempts to storm lorries

No generalisations there at all. I would have thought that if someone comes from a place like Syria that the 'choice' of moving is somewhat coerced anyway.

Does this mean you disagree with the UK's stance of taking virtually no refugees compared to other EU countries then?

Also, it is easy to have these views when you live in a rich, western country (an accident of birth, not because you are inherently better than someone who happened to be born in Damascus). However, you have to ask yourself how long you would put up with watching your child live in grinding poverty with zero prospects before you attempted to make a better life for them and yourself.

And as I said on my previous thread, look long-term. The children of the immigrants might grow up to be doctors, nurses, lawyers, politicians and hugely benefit the country.

SouthallGirl · 01/12/2016 19:28

FruitCider - Sorry, misread another poster's biog as yours.

canwestart2016again · 01/12/2016 19:29

If we don't get extra people coming in, where will the money we need for pensions come from?

DoinItFine · 01/12/2016 19:31

A better response than complaining about migrants would be to provide loans to UK unemployed people to get HGV licences- but it is easier to blame migrants.

Why aren't the companies who need these HGV drivers training their own staff?

Might it be because it is cheaper for them to import the labour they need?

Encouraging the poor to take on debt so they can compete for semi-skilled jobs seems a poor policy to me.

SouthallGirl · 01/12/2016 19:37

thisisafakename All Syrians and Iraqis are refugees and should be accepted. There are none in the Calais camp. The reason so many people set up a camp is because they knew they were not eligible for entry into UK. They could hv applied for in France or before France and could hv got lucky, but as they were not fleeing a war zone their only recourse was to start a battle of wills.

sportinguista · 01/12/2016 19:38

Justice there used to be courses provided by employment schemes to do that and forklift training ( also in shortage my DH is a trainer). I remember as I used to work for a local council and some of my work was doing leaflets for these schemes. They were really popular as the training without subsidy costs around £800 and usually led to a job. But that was close on 20 years ago now. If the training is no longer there I can't imagine anyone can afford it. DH friend recently retrained to get hgv licence but he did it in his home country it wasn't affordable here. So how might someone on benefits access this training, if they have no savings and prospect of a loan or funding. Could they go elsewhere in the Eu to get the training?

SouthallGirl · 01/12/2016 19:39

You are stating my parents fled danger through choice. My bad

I mistook another poster's backstory to be yours. She said that her mother fled to the UK to escape her husband. I was point out that to go to another country was a choice, not a necessity.

DoinItFine · 01/12/2016 19:39

ALL Syrians are refugees?!

What, even the Assad supporters involved in the siege of Aleppo?

GardenGeek · 01/12/2016 19:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

justicewomen · 01/12/2016 19:44

DoinItFine
It may have been true a few years ago but the hauliers are not attracting the qualified migrant drivers either because they can make more in Germany and Scandinavia.

Im am not still getting my point through- we have a labour shortage in my region - so it is not a case of migrants taking our jobs, its migrants filling unfilled vacancies. If we lose the migrants we will be in severe economic difficulties unless steps are taken to promote training and internal migration. Simplistic answers like workfare etc will not solve the problems.

BTW HGV driving is skilled work requiring a qualification and difficult -to-pass medical. Pay is reasonable but long and anti social hours and poor working conditions

sportinguista · 01/12/2016 19:44

Like I said, one size does not fit all, either in the case of Brits or people from elsewhere in the world. Everybody is unique and has their own set of circumstances.

FruitCider · 01/12/2016 19:45

What, even the Assad supporters involved in the siege of Aleppo?

Being as there are rebel groups bombing Assad held regions, I would say yes.

thisisafakename · 01/12/2016 19:46

I mistook another poster's backstory to be yours. She said that her mother fled to the UK to escape her husband. I was point out that to go to another country was a choice, not a necessity

That would be me then. Yeah, I never denied that my mother is a migrant (or indeed that I am an immigrant). I have never tried to claim that she was a refugee or anything. But my point was that by the state giving her a bit of support, this has directly led to the UK's benefit of five, highly educated professionals making a direct contribution to society. My brother by saving lives and me by educating people who want to go on to be lawyers (or indeed enter any graduate career). You shouldn't always dismiss people's dreams for a better life. What if your parents had been turned away from the UK due to it being 'full'?