Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Why is it usually the woman who gives up work?

497 replies

Firedoll · 30/11/2016 10:11

I'm on mat leave and have been asked 30+ times if I'll be going back to work and, when I say yes, if I'll be part time.

My DH has never once been asked about his working hours since our DS was born.

And if I say yes I am going back to work I get "oh, will your DS go to nursery/will you get a nanny?" The idea that my DH could look after DS for some of the time while I'm at work just doesn't even enters people's heads.

I don't blame people for asking because they're just making conversation. And it seems they are making a reasonable assumption as if one of the couple is going to give up work/reduce their hours, most of the time it will be the woman. In my experience at least.

But why is this? I see so often on here people saying that their OH couldn't go part time or is the higher earner. But all the latest reports suggest women in their twenties are now out earning men so that can't be true for the majority.

Is it just a cultural thing?

OP posts:
NerrSnerr · 04/12/2016 14:12

Do you see how it can be seen as rude and quite insulting to call other women's choices and saddening depressing and saddening. We should be promoting choice- not just the choices that you think are acceptable.

roundaboutthetown · 04/12/2016 14:18

Female biology is permanently different from men's. We have different levels of hormones and different physical characteristics. We all know that our hormones can and do affect our emotions and reactions to things. We don't actually know how similar to men and vice versa we would be if we were all brought up differently. What we do know is that for the majority of human existence, women have spent more time involved in childcare of the very young than men and that the modern world of work is pretty unnatural for all of us, male and female. How we deal with the relative unnaturalness of our modern lives is up for debate.

YelloDraw · 04/12/2016 14:19

buckyou since its only natural that women are going to give birth and then stay at home and look after all of the babies - do you think it is worth investing in the education of girls? Do you think it is worth fighting for equality of recruitment at a grad level? Or, well, fuck it because they aren't going to stay in work anyway?

Having small children is but a tiny part of your working life. is it really worth sacrificing long term prosperity (career advancement, pension) for those few difficult years?

buckyou · 04/12/2016 14:20

You are being extremely rude in assuming to know me so well apparently and how I am going to bring my kids up! Infuriating.

I haven't said women should be the primary care giver, I just think families should have the freedom to do what works best for them without pressure that they should be doing one thing or a other for whatever reason.

YelloDraw · 04/12/2016 14:21

Do you see how it can be seen as rude and quite insulting to call other women's choices and saddening depressing and saddening

Actually buck wasn't talking about choices. She was speaking as if it was inevitable that women stay home. That attitude is depressing and I hope to god you model to your children that that can be anything they want to be - irrespective of sex. And I hope you would be supportive of your DS becoming a SAHD...? Right? Since it's all about choice.

NerrSnerr · 04/12/2016 14:21

Sorry, my part time work saddens me so much and had too many saddenings in there.

cheekyfunkymonkey · 04/12/2016 14:22

It may be social conditioning in some cases but my parents shared the childcare, my dad was one of the few sah dad's I knew at the time when it was his 'turn', my Mum worked as well. My dsis is a real high flyer, and has chosen to work full time while her dh is a full time sah dad. I was very career oriented but my experience once I became a mother is that personally I choose to work part time (and am hoping to go term time, and would sah if we could afford it). We were brought up the same. We chose differently. I don't believe I was preconditioned to want to be with my kids ( and I am a little bit Xmas Confused if this is a widespread assumption). My dsis does not feel she is missing out either, she is very happy being the working parent. We are both happy with our choices.

Munstermonchgirl · 04/12/2016 14:24

I don't see it as anyone saying it's depressing for a woman to choose to give up work if she's in a partnership where both sides are equally happy with that decision, have thought through the impact of that choice and are very conscious of counterbalancing societal pressures in the messages they give their children.

What IS depressing is that it's very difficult for couples to make genuine choices when society places expectations based on gender.

There have been quite a few comments on this thread from women saying they feel their dh is missing out by being the full time worker - that's the kind of thing that's depressing because it doesn't feel like that's a genuine choice by a couple who have discussed and thought through all the ramifications. If you really believe that about your dh, why on Earth are you perpetuating a situation where you feel he is missing out (and by implication your children are missing out on that time with their dad too)

buckyou · 04/12/2016 14:24

I don't really know what you are talking about yellow. I'm not sure you do either.

YelloDraw · 04/12/2016 14:29

To be fair I am coming at this from the perspective of having an interesting (most of the time) well paid career with advancement opportunities.

If I had to go do something relatively menial for minimum wage I'd probably rather stay home as well! For all the guff on here about how being at home is so difficult, it's not actually as hard as working 60h a week as a cleaner or something relatively manual. Or going to work every day in a shit team environment where you don't feel valued (thinking sports direct wareshouse staff here).

But that is another problem in itself - far more of the menial minimum wage jobs are done by women than men #circle

YelloDraw · 04/12/2016 14:30

I don't really know what you are talking about yellow.

Don't worry about it - there is probably some housework you need to do.

buckyou · 04/12/2016 14:30

You seem very interested in what other people do with their lives. You really don't need to feel depressed on my families behalf.. Thank you.

Munstermonchgirl · 04/12/2016 14:33

You're taking this far too personally buckyou. No one is feeling depressed about a random unknown person on the internet. It's the societal expectations which constrain BOTH women and men which is depressing

Childrenofthestones · 04/12/2016 14:34

Hypergamy.
If so many women, especially middleclass women, didn't cling to it like a drowning sailor to a life belt then, a much higher proportion of women would be the bigger earner than at present.
This more than anything holds men back from being in a position to be the ones that give up work or go part time, even if they want to. It would be financially too crippling for the bigger earner to stop bringing in the moolah. perhaps if they were to pay paternity pay at the same rate as the man earns it would change things.
As long as (proportionately) men work more hours in higher paying jobs than their partners things will never change.
It would be interesting to see a study done to observe if lesbians or gays in civil partnerships follow the same pattern, with the lower earner naturally being the one to give up work temporarily.

YelloDraw · 04/12/2016 14:38

Childrenofthestones exactly! But why is it the women are in the lower paid jobs of the couple...?!?

Social conditioning from childhood around the types of jobs that are more suited to women, more caring roles etc. And that being a hungry hard nosed career person is an attractive trait in men and in attractive in women.

YelloDraw · 04/12/2016 14:38

unattractive

buckyou · 04/12/2016 14:40

I'm not a SAHM myself yellow so why would I insinuate that? I said it's inevitable that more women than men will stay at home. I don't think that's such a crazy thing to think.

roundaboutthetown · 04/12/2016 15:21

I don't think being hard nosed is an attractive characteristic in either men or women. Perhaps less adulation of aggressive cocks would be helpful, rather than bemoaning the fact that nobody likes a woman who is hard nosed and aggressive in the workplace? Or must we all become more aggressive?

Basicbrown · 04/12/2016 16:09

I'm not a SAHM myself yellow so why would I insinuate that? I said it's inevitable that more women than men will stay at home. I don't think that's such a crazy thing to think.

Whether you are a SAHP or a WOHP is irrelevant, there is no issue with being either. It's the unquestioning acceptance of societal norms and discrimination in the workplace towards both men and women that is Hmm.

Konyaa · 04/12/2016 16:10

inevitable that more women than men will stay at home.

That statement is a prediction, and perhaps even a statistically accurate description.

For you it is also normative I.e a vision of how things ought to be. Or that if things are this way that is fine and normal. That being at home, participation in the labour market, dis/parities in wages are all fine this way because that is how most individuals will make choices that - in your eyes - are individual choices standing free.

The rest of us are pointing out that - accepting this as the norm is sexist, rooted through centuries of conditioning in patriarchy, and so well embedded within contemporary society that we do not even see it an conclude that our choices are simply - individual choices - without any structures and histories behind them.

Newmummy332 · 04/12/2016 16:17

Hi op, I've read this post with interest as I have a ds aged 7 weeks. I plan to go back to work when he is 12 weeks old and dh will be using the new(ish) shared parental leave to stay at home with ds for 6 months.
Everyone we have told has been very surprised at this (despite it being well known I earn more than him, I was his manager). We have come up against some interesting comments mostly revolving around "well i suppose at least someone is at home looking after him" implying my dh or men in general are second best primary carers. Or the alternative suggestions that I'm anot aggressive career woman who's not maternal and has dh "under the thumb".

Munstermonchgirl · 04/12/2016 16:47

Excellent posts from basicbrown and Konyaa.
And newmummy- good for you for taking up the option of shared parental leave (a piece of legislation which was fought for by many of us who'd have loved it to be around 20 years ago)
Ignore the doom merchants who imply that your child's father is a second-best carer... that view says more about their partners than yours, and how lovely for your child that you prioritise him having a fully hands on relationship with both parents rather than being possessive about time with him

Philoslothy · 04/12/2016 17:03

first six months of babyhood are not a fun time. Plenty of women then go back to work full time after that. Maybe some of them would rather their husbands had taken those six months, rather than getting any of the cushier, later years...

With one exception all of mine have been easier for the first six months. I find toddler to be much harder than newborn. If I had found being with a newborn hardwork I am sure my husband would have happily stepped up. Not all women and not all families face the same situation.

Ours is further complicated by the fact that my husband had 2 families to support. He couldn't stop working to stay at home even if he wanted to.

Cinnamon2013 · 04/12/2016 17:11

'Women are biologically made for this role'

Beyond breastfeeding I'm sorry but this is total bollocks. And so limiting. Yes, some women choose to and want to stay at home more. But biology makes me no better than my husband at:

  • making pasta
  • pushing a buggy
-reading stories
  • going to the playground
  • potty training

Etc etc

It's a SOCIETAL CONSTRUCT.

Sorry for shouting, but the perpetuating of this myth is holding so many women back from living lives they might wish too.

Philoslothy · 04/12/2016 17:16

There have been quite a few comments on this thread from women saying they feel their dh is missing out by being the full time worker - that's the kind of thing that's depressing because it doesn't feel like that's a genuine choice by a couple who have discussed and thought through all the ramifications. If you really believe that about your dh, why on Earth are you perpetuating a situation where you feel he is missing out (and by implication your children are missing out on that time with their dad too)

Before we had children I was the main earner so that DH could have more time with his son. When we had our first I went back to work within weeks as we could not afford to support two families on one wage. With our later children I could have longer maternity leaves. I was until recently a working mother with four children. Baby five and six came along in rapid succession and my request for part time was refused. DH sold a business and started another and so he can work much more flexibly than I could . So it made sense for me to stay at home. He also enjoys working more than me. I am inherently quite lazy whereas he is a grafter. He is considering retiring at 50 which isn't that long off, if I had stayed in teaching I would have worked another 13 years!