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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Why is it usually the woman who gives up work?

497 replies

Firedoll · 30/11/2016 10:11

I'm on mat leave and have been asked 30+ times if I'll be going back to work and, when I say yes, if I'll be part time.

My DH has never once been asked about his working hours since our DS was born.

And if I say yes I am going back to work I get "oh, will your DS go to nursery/will you get a nanny?" The idea that my DH could look after DS for some of the time while I'm at work just doesn't even enters people's heads.

I don't blame people for asking because they're just making conversation. And it seems they are making a reasonable assumption as if one of the couple is going to give up work/reduce their hours, most of the time it will be the woman. In my experience at least.

But why is this? I see so often on here people saying that their OH couldn't go part time or is the higher earner. But all the latest reports suggest women in their twenties are now out earning men so that can't be true for the majority.

Is it just a cultural thing?

OP posts:

StarUtopia · 03/12/2016 20:15

Yes, it's a cultural thing. As a feminist I find it pretty annoying.

FWIW I outearn DP by about ten times so he will be a SAHP and I will work full time.

And then you have a baby and realise it's not about how much money you have. It's not about how fancy your car is. It's not about how many flash holidays you can take every year. I'm glad I'm not a feminist if this is a popular viewpoint. No one ever said on their deathbed I wish I had worked more. On the other hand, I bet plenty have said, I wish I could have my time back with my children.

It's natural to want to be at home and prioritise small defenceless babies/toddlers over an ego busting career.

Philoslothy · 03/12/2016 20:25

For me being on maternity leave was easier than working, once I got a taste of an easier life I wasn't giving it up.

SheldonCRules · 03/12/2016 20:33

I think men just don't get the choice, very few women are happy to support a man to not work and many won't share maternity leave as feels it's their right. It's likely the reason many don't take up the offer.

There are however many many that believe as a women they should have the right to not work or do a little token job claiming childcare is too expensive or they can't leave their child yet expect the father too daily to support that choice.

Basicbrown · 03/12/2016 20:37

It's natural to want to be at home and prioritise small defenceless babies/toddlers over an ego busting career.

Now this is the vile sexism that the thread is about.

roundaboutthetown · 03/12/2016 20:48

I'm quite sure plenty of women do indeed think that someone else caring for their child is hugely inferior to them doing it themselves and that childcare being too expensive is not the only reason women might not want to go back to work. Why would someone being paid peanuts to look after my children be a better carer for my child than I would? I wouldn't be willing to care for a stranger's infant children for that level of pay...

raisedbyguineapigs · 03/12/2016 20:49

star I take it it's fine for men to have the ego busting g career, or whoever it is who's paying g for your food, heating and a roof over your head.

I agree with you Sheldon. Women can choose to be at home, or to work less, but the men don't have a choice. It's always the woman with the boring jobs who have husband's with fulfilling jobs that they absolutely love so much that they have to spend 20 hours a day doing them.

Basicbrown · 03/12/2016 20:50

Why not just substitute the word 'women' with 'parents'....?

Bananabread123 · 03/12/2016 20:52

It's interesting that the cultural tendency for women to give up work is sexist (against women), rather than discriminatory against both sexes.

For it to be seen as sexist to women in particular, rather than discriminatory to both sexes, the assumption must exist that 'staying at home to look after children' is somehow inferior to 'being out at work'. This is insulting to SAHPs of both sexes.

If there was a culture of men and women being genuinely being given equal opportunity and support for taking career breaks to look after children, it's not just women who would prefer to be back at work that would benefit, but men who feel they have no choice but to work full time - often in jobs they dislike - throughout their children's development. I've heard many, many mums say how much they looked forward to starting maternity leave and being away from workplace pressures. This isn't a one way street... it affects both men and women.

roundaboutthetown · 03/12/2016 20:52

Because I'm quite sure there are plenty of men who would rather their wives cared for their infant children than they did. It's the mindset of two sexes that need to change to make both parents want something different from what is still the norm.

Bananabread123 · 03/12/2016 20:55

It's always the woman with the boring jobs who have husband's with fulfilling jobs that they absolutely love so much that they have to spend 20 hours a day doing them.

Nonsense.... ok, this may be true in some cases, but many men work long hours because they have to rather than because they love their jobs so much.

EllieQ · 03/12/2016 20:55

I suppose we got onto shared leave because the theory is that as men start taking parental leave and becoming more involved in childcare/ more likely to request part-time working, it won't be assumed that women will always go part-time or stop working.

I also agree with Sheldon that men don't have the choices women have regarding working after having children - why shouldn't they have that choice?

Also, I didn't realise being a feminist meant I should have a flash car and lots of money! Where's my money?

roundaboutthetown · 03/12/2016 20:56

Men find it just as easy to leave their jobs as women do - all you have to do is hand a resignation letter into HR.

raisedbyguineapigs · 03/12/2016 21:00

roundabout and star Do you think only women who want to or are capable of staying at home should have children then? Do you know what happens if you do that? The System will turn round to your clever, intelligent and inquisitive daughter and tell them not to bother studying too hard, or doing STEM subjects or going to University, because we can't afford to educate people who are going to be economically inactive for years. We need to concentrate on the ones who are going to do the working and supporting all the women and children. Her decisions will be made for her. It's what happened a generation ago.

raisedbyguineapigs · 03/12/2016 21:01

banana I was being g sarcastic! Sorry!

Bananabread123 · 03/12/2016 21:02

Men find it just as easy to leave their jobs as women do - all you have to do is hand a resignation letter into HR.

So there's no cultural pressure or expectation put into men to remain at work?... but there is a cultural pressure for women to give up work?

No, there's cultural pressure for both sexes!

Bananabread123 · 03/12/2016 21:04

raised sorry for not spotting the sarcasm.

roundaboutthetown · 03/12/2016 21:08

I am not aware of having said what I want women to do... Why several years of economic inactivity should mean having your education taken away from you I don't know, though - what a crass idea. We live for several score years. Several years out does not mean an entire education has been wasted and that a person should thus be put on the intellectual scrap heap for the rest of their natural life. Nor should children b brought up my uneducated people - the higher the parental level of education, the better the children do.

cheekyfunkymonkey · 03/12/2016 21:26

I don't think it's an ingrained culture thing, or a breadwinner thing. I was main breadwinner, we had DD, I wanted to stay with her but dragged myself back to work full time. Dh could see it was making me unhappy and stepped up, not just for me but because of her. I now choose to work part time and cover holidays etc. I love it. I would ( reluctantly) share if dh wanted to, but I am grateful he doesn't. For me it is pure nature and I was always very career focussed. Having kids changed me and if money was no object I would be off with them full time. This doesn't make me sexist, or not a feminist or whatever. It actually makes me happy and lucky to have such a supportive dh. If I wanted to work full time that would be absolutely doable, but I don't. If he wanted to stay off with the kids though I admit I would struggle. Not because he's a man but because selfishly I want to do it.

NickMarlow · 03/12/2016 21:28

Dh works full time, I work part time.

We talked about it a lot, he would have been prepared to stay at home some/all the time, but I actively wanted to be at home some of the time. I have dd for 3.5 days. Whilst I'm at work, dd is in nursery for 1.5 days, and with dh for half a day each weekend, and 2-3 evenings each week. He takes flexi days when I need to work on days when dd isn't in nursery, about 10 days a year.

It isn't equal, but it works well for us and is a choice we both made together.

My 3 closest friends and I were all higher earners than our husbands. One couple both work full time. One dad is full time sahd, mum works full time. One dad has gone part time, mum stayed full time. So anecdotally, it does seem to be getting more equal!

roundaboutthetown · 03/12/2016 21:32

What some people seem to be saying is that women should go out to work to stop men getting away with being abusive control freaks - we must do it so as not to be at men's mercy, so as to contribute to an economic system established by men in which any form of nurturing or caring is of not particularly high value. It's a hugely negative and depressing incentive, in all honesty.

KatharinaRosalie · 03/12/2016 21:54

And then you have a baby and realise it's not about how much money you have. It's not about how fancy your car is. It's not about how many flash holidays you can take every year.

You forgot to mention the designer handbags.

I had a baby. 2. I'm still quite fond of my career as well, which surprisingly is not only means to a fancier car.

Minesnotahighhorse · 03/12/2016 22:47

It's natural to want to be at home and prioritise small defenceless babies/toddlers over an ego busting career.

Oh spare me. Tell me StarUtopia, is the doctor who treats you in A&E "busting her ego"? The teacher who teaches your child? As I mentioned up thread, I work for many reasons but "busting my ego"(whatever the fuck that means) is not one of them.

And roundabouttown, I think we've been reading different threads! I haven't read anyone saying they don't put a value on nurturing and caring, just that parents of both sexes are capable of nurturing and caring and there is nothing wrong with parents of both sexes spending some time away from their children. What do you think happened before the mid 20th century anyway? Working class women worked and middle and upper class women did not, but had live-in childcare in the form of nannies and barely saw their kids!!

roundaboutthetown · 03/12/2016 22:53

How would you interpret raisedbyguineapigs' post, then, Minesnotahighhorse? Or the fact that under our economic system, caring and nurturing has to have a lower economic value than other activities to enable people to afford to leave their own homes and so something else, or that we live in a society that undeniably does link economic income with superiority and importance?

Breadwidow · 03/12/2016 22:58

You can work and breast feed after 6 months. There's no biological reason for the woman to be main career for a child 6 months old or more. There's no biological reason for a man to be worse at raising older babies/toddlers/pre schoolers than a woman, none at all.

Eolian · 03/12/2016 23:02

Jeez. My dh works full time in a highly stressful job and I work part time and look after the house (and kids when they aren't at school). I have the faaaar better deal. No it's not equal in terms of status, but I'd rather have my life than his, by miles.

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