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Original poster

AIBU to be horrified by the Stolen Children of England

999 replies

LivingOnTheDancefloor · 29/11/2016 22:30

I just watched a French documentary called "England's stolen children" and can't believe this is happening in England. Horrifying, scary, unbelievable, it is like a horror movie...

Basically, social services are taking babies from their parents based on suspicion that abuse might happen in the future, except that the decision is made based on ridiculous things.
A lady had her three children taken from her, including a breastfed baby because she went to the ER for a child's broken ankle and they judged that he must have been beaten by his parents (only based on the ankle). X years later the parents manage to prove the fracture was due to scorbut. And they found out the initial report from the ER says "no sign of fracture".
The judge admitted they shouldn't have taken the children and the parents were innocents. But the children were given to adoption so the parents will never see them again.
That is just one of the stories.
Some women are told while pregnant that their newborn will be taken as soon as he arrives (and thzney do it).
The documentary says it is due to the facts that counties have to reach a number of children given to adoption so they target poor/uneducated parents and find any reason to take their children.
And as fostering costs money to the state they prefer adoption.

AIBU to ask if you heard about it here in the UK? And if yes, what do you think? Could it be true or are they exagerating?

I am really shaken.

www.google.fr/amp/s/researchingreform.net/2016/11/14/englands-stolen-children-controversial-new-documentary-on-forced-adoption/amp/?client=safari

Sorry, no idea how to post links, and I am on my phone

OP posts:
haystack10 · 07/12/2016 06:09

Started a thread to question why----reported. Found this thread " whatever happened to mumsnet? Are you all on valium or summat"? today 01:32, " we've been infiltrated by the easily offended and hard of thinking". Is this what it is?

haystack10 · 07/12/2016 06:16

05:56 should start "I just don't get it"?

babybarrister · 07/12/2016 06:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

UnbornMortificado · 07/12/2016 07:54

Hay that threads been pulled too.

Have you ever spoken to anyone in real life about your fear about all this? You just come across as really anxious about it.

I'm not saying that nastily I have anxiety myself and it's horrible.

HerRoyalFattyness · 07/12/2016 07:58

hay no one is saying mistakes aren't made, just that it is very rare as there a (rightly) a hell of a lot of hoops to jump through before taking someone's children away.

Adala · 07/12/2016 08:30

Hay, I don't know if you responded to me as the thread was pulled, but you were cross about me saying a poster above had "ranted".

I hope I explained that to me it did come across as ranting, and about something she didn't necessarily know the real details about.

Friends rarely get the whole story - my parents' friends didn't know the reality, or didn't want to know.

It's ok to question stories, especially when they're filled with rage and incoherence: it's not the same as saying definitively they're not true, or dismissing the idea of abuse in the system.

But to approach abuse in the system, you have to know it is abuse and how it happened, especially if there are holes and questionable things in the account. If things don't add up, how can you tackle them?

haystack10 · 07/12/2016 08:36

Re people reluctant to discuss possible authority victimisation, there's already been improvement. Spero (much respected Family Lawyer) has gone from 4/12/16 17:3, (a few injustices) to 6/12/16 10:36, CAN'T POSSIBLY DENY THAT THESE THINGS HAPPEN--SADLY THEY DO, THE EVIDENCE IS ALL AROUND US. Spero, on behalf of my friends, their children and all the other families who are/ have been abused & victimised by the state/ system, Thank you.

Adala · 07/12/2016 08:41

If you're not going to be logical, and are going to be shouty, then it's difficult for me to talk to you (aspie) so I'm going to leave it here. Hope I explained my thoughts a bit. Flowers

heythereconniver · 07/12/2016 08:41

baby that doesn't excuse the sw if their work is subjective though. Those notes are the main piece of evidence a judge has to work with. They can't be expected to reliably see through them if they're misleading, nor is it reasonable to expect a lawyer to challenge the narrative set up by a plethora of largely unprovable or provable observations and comments.

I knew of social workers who deliberately made spot visits at tea time /bath time to the home of a family with tiny children who were applying to adopt a baby they were fostering. Ss had a different couple in mind for the adoption. The visits were timed in order to get observations that would suggest the couple weren't coping. Isn't that outrageous? The judge recognised what they were trying to do but what exactly could a lawyer do to prove the couple were coping or that the plethora of observations were not an objective commentary on the family? And how can a system work when professionals are prepared to play the system like this with people's lives?

You can say it's not a problem all you like. It won't change what's happening.

PoldarksBreeches · 07/12/2016 08:57

hey
How can you possibly say you know all that happened? What part in that scenario could you be playing to know not only what the social workers intentions were, but also what the judge thought of it?

haystack10 · 07/12/2016 09:04

Adala, wasn't shouting. Just wanted to make it absolutely clear what Spero had said and thank her.

haystack10 · 07/12/2016 09:30

AllPartOfThePlan, hope you're watching, that thankyou for recognition from a Family Lawyer was for you too. I've waited 11 years for something like that. Slow process isn't it?Smile Hope you're ok and sorry you were up all night the other night, saw you on that other thread.

Adala · 07/12/2016 09:55

Thanks for clarifying. There are ways of emphasising text without shouty capitals though.

I don't see how the two things you've highlighted are contradictory?

haystack10 · 07/12/2016 10:28

Adala, went from a few injustices had been recognised to "the evidence is all around us". This is important recognition for victims because often the reaction is No. This. Does. Not. Happen. And for it to come from a respected family lawyer who is very experienced validates it further.

Adala · 07/12/2016 10:33

I still don't get the contradiction, which might be my brain being weird.

I work read that as "there are still only a small number of cases - but the evidence is around"?

I'll wait to hear what Spero says though, maybe you're right!

heythereconniver · 07/12/2016 10:39

poldark

For a start, I don't have to tell you my relationship to the people involved. You can believe the story or not as you wish.

As for how I know what the judge thought of SS's input and the way they had gone about things, he was fairly...shall we say....blunt.

heythereconniver · 07/12/2016 10:42

As for the SS's intentions, they made it perfectly clear what they wanted to happen. It was the judge who observed how they had tried to make that happen.

But you are predisposed not to believe that this exists, as is your right. But don't think your sceptical attitude is informed or objective - it isn't.

I don't know if this happens regularly or not. But it certainly does happen and trying to tear every instance of it happening to shreds (while agreeing that it does happen) is not terribly rational.

haystack10 · 07/12/2016 10:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

haystack10 · 07/12/2016 11:29

I'm going to repeat this important message for one last time in case some MN's try to change the way it's worded. Spero (an experienced Family Lawyer) posted on 6/12/16 at 10:36, "can't possibly deny that these things happen- sadly they do, the evidence is all around us"

Adala · 07/12/2016 11:38

hay - sorry, but I still don't think you're making the point you repeatedly think you are.

I appreciate it's important to you though and I am waiting to hear Spero.

(Also theoretically MN could just delete all the comments here if some conspiracy was started against you Confused)

RhiWrites · 07/12/2016 11:49

It doesn't happen.

Haystack, I'm sorry you are so distrusting of profession support services because I think you need professional help.

This kind of conspiracy theory is actively harmful because it stops people reporting abuse or fears of abuse in case someone "has their children taken away". It makes people fearful of the support services there to help them.

This is like saying doctors steal organs. It's nonsense and the product of a misunderstanding in the first instance and fear mongering thereafter.

haystack10 · 07/12/2016 11:55

Where did I mention conspiracy?

Adala · 07/12/2016 12:01

For me I used the word in relation to MN deleting or editing posts. Why would you suspect that?

Leanback · 07/12/2016 12:04

I think Spero was very clear with what she meant.

haystack10 · 07/12/2016 12:07

Adala, with respect, is it possibly because of your aspergers that you don't understand? Family member (aspie) has the same problem.

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