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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

The reason young people can't afford to buy houses

1002 replies

GrabtharsHammer · 27/11/2016 21:42

Is because they all have iPhones and Sky telly.

So sayeth my mother.

Nothing at all to do with the ridiculous house prices then? They are baby boomers and bought their first house for a few thousand quid on my dads modest salary.

Apparently the youth of today just need to get rid of their gadgets and telly subscriptions and then they will easily afford a deposit and mortgage.

Are everyone's parents this judgemental and out of touch or am I just particularly lucky?

(Fairly lighthearted) AIBU?

OP posts:
almondpudding · 30/11/2016 09:56

Moving to the North is not a practical solution for many people, as it leaves them with no support and ends up increasing childcare costs and creates other practical concerns.

But part of the reason the South East has become so overcrowded is the many people from the North and Wales who move there for better job opportunities, who are then away from their support structures. There are clear advantages to creating job opportunities in Wales and the North so people don't feel they have to move away.

As for increasing house prices in the North, it depends on the area. My parents' house in the North has decreased in value in the last 15 years and they now can't afford to live near me in another part of the North because they can't afford housing here. So it is about the government needing to be selective in investment and choosing areas which require regeneration. There are areas where population could be increased (rather than declining) and housing would remain affordable.

Maxwellthecat · 30/11/2016 10:09

Just out of interest those that have mortgages how many of you have it paid off and how long did it take?

MsHooliesCardigan · 30/11/2016 10:17

holly Thanks for that Guardian link, it's kind of hard to argue with those graphs. I just don't understand how some people remain so hell bent in persisting that it's no harder buying a home than it's ever been and feckless entitled young people just need to get rid of their phones and stop going to Starbucks when presented with such clear FACTS.
If nothing changes, there will very soon come a point when the only people who will be able to live in London are:
Those who bought before prices went crazy.
People eligible for social housing.
Very rich people.
It's just wrong that living in the capital is beyond the reach of ordinary people.
But then they can always 'just move'.

Pisssssedofff · 30/11/2016 10:25

I don't know anyone who can afford to live less than an hour from Sydney, Washington, Auckland etc this isn't a U.K. Issue, it's the same all over the world

TinselTwins · 30/11/2016 10:31

Guardianship is fine for creatives and free spirits (who arguably, don't really NEED to be in London), but you have to commit something like 15 hours a week to community work, so no good for people who move to london to get a foot in in a compeditive industry where they're expected to do lots of overtime or shift workers.

EnormousTiger · 30/11/2016 11:35

Maxwell, we paid our first mortgage off after 12 years but then moved to a bigger house. I paid that off about 2 years ago so I think I paid a mortgage for a continuous period of 30 years. It rose ot £90k a year at once point interest only which was not fun but obviously I am very very lucky to earn what I do and I expect no sympathy for selling London home at a loss, massive interest rates and all the rest. Basically I have always taken a lot of risks and often they don't pay off but sometimes they do. Not everyone is able to take those risks even if they want to because of their own personal situations.

I know a bit about the property market at the bottom end in outer London and beyond as my son just bought last week. There is a shortage down here of property in the £100k - £300k range. It has got a bit better since the extra landlord 3% stamp duty change happened and brexit. Suddenly agents were prepared to send my son properties rather than never returning his calls for example. We definitely felt that change in attitude.

30 years ago we had to commute from \zone 5 London where I still live as we could not afford any further in. I am not saying things are easy now for those on average incomes of course.

I also agree that we can certainly debate the issues as well as looking at ways to help our children pick jobs which may mean they can afford to buy. it's always been an issue for London teachers. We bought even though we had a very cheap school flat (the only way to get teachers down here 30 years ago or one way was to offer school accommodation as the london weighting was pathetic in London when comparing prices of houses between North and South same as now). We could have lived pretty easily in that but stretched every penny to buy a small place in our 20s.

As people have said there is not a shortage of property across the whole UK just in some cities where there are jobs including London. I also agree about the NE - the places my parents and family lived the prices are very cheap even now but other areas are not; although even there we had to knock £100k off our parents house in order to sell it. That was very different from London. At the moment on the other side of the family the house in Yorkshire being sold is not worth anything like Londoners would expect for a lovely house.

£30k house in Halifax for example www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-45525099.html and there are loads of them. Halifax is not awful by any means.

Down here an illustration fo a move my son's sellers sold in Chesham and moved to Aylesbury as it is cheaper there and so they could get their extra bed room for the children.
2 bed flat £145k Aylesbury www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-56403418.html

The biggest issues are deposit in my view. The mortbage once you have them paying 2 or 3% on a repayment basis are less than many rents and very good low value even though it's 2% of a large sum.

So my example would be a couple needing £300k property - say 2 bed flat outer London might borrow 90% so need to find £15k each. In some jobs you might save up £15k over a few years. My daughter by working 6 days a week as trainee lawyer and hardly seeing day light for 2 years at least could save money - i fyou work 24/7 just about you don't spend your money. Not everyone can be a trainee lawyer. If you are say a postman on £22k and house share you will rpobably spend £600 a month on rent. If you are careful you can save money - plenty of my son's colleagues even send money back home to help families abroad. Not easy though at all. I am not saying it is.

Getting that deposit for a 90% loan is difficult. I have never bought in times of 100% or more mortgage so I am not sure how easy that was but it would always have been very risky and fairly foolish to borrow 100% and not available now.

OneFlewOverTheDodosNest · 30/11/2016 16:58

I live in Halifax Enormous and am very fortunate in that I have a comparatively well paid job and live in exceedingly cheap housing. I go down to London once a week and I can guarantee that I've got a better lifestyle than people significantly more senior than me have in London because my disposable income is so high (my costs are under half my salary)

However well paying jobs here are exceedingly rare, and even full time NMW jobs are very difficult to find. Most people have to commute to Leeds, Bradford or Huddersfield to get to NMW jobs which means relying on dreadful public transport or spending a large proportion of their costs on running a car. Also, whilst I'm in a very fortunate position now, if I needed a new job (through choice or circumstance) I would have to relocate.

So whilst I'm very lucky, I'd be very hesitant to recommend to people to move up here unless a company announces it's relocating.

Want2bSupermum · 30/11/2016 17:24

Another thing that I have noticed since moving abroad is that our mortgage is fixed for the life of the mortgage at 3.625%. That means that our mortgage payment will be the same today as it will be in 23 years when we plan to make our last payment. This does not exist in the UK and I think it would be fabulous for the UK to go back to this via fixed rate gilts or just subsidize. Yes we still have people who buy a home with an adjustable rate and it isn't something I will ever do.

If they could get everyone onto a fixed rate mortgage then they would have a fair chance of at least keeping their home when increasing rates. It would help younger people keep their home, although they would still be in negative equity.

user1471439240 · 30/11/2016 17:29

It is perhaps time to apply a higher interest rate to London and its environs to quell the insidious and speculative nature of the property market.

expatinscotland · 30/11/2016 17:34

'Even if "most" twentysomethings did have the option to live with their parents well into adulthood, there are still significant numbers of young people and adults who do not have that option.

How many people grew up in care? How many people experienced child or teen homelessness? How many people were abused as children? How many people were orphaned young? '

And not just that, but 'Oh, just live at home, for free,' presumes an already relatively good state of wealth as to do so the home must be in a place of plentiful employment and education (so the adult can find full-time paid employment in the area and not have to leave it to find work), the parents wealthy enough to keep and feed an adult working full-time and not have to downsize, rent the room out to a lodger or charge the adult child the equivalent of that.

It's pie in the sky for many people.

olderthanyouthink · 30/11/2016 18:15

expat that's the problem I'm having at the moment. I get paid pretty well but not enough to make a studio in London "affordable", even though I could live in the cheaper bits with worse transport.

I grew up in East London but my parents had enough of living surrounded by crime so they moved to the coast. There are fuck all jobs there (but I could probably buy there).

Last month, they started charging me to live there. So now it costs me £900 to live at home (train ticket plus "rent"). I need to move out because I have no life there, no time, and I can't really save that much by living there.

So now I'm looking in to ways I can live cheaply without a house-share (would not be good for me), guardianship is also out because it's not stable.

olderthanyouthink · 30/11/2016 18:17

By studio, I mean the estate agent term for bedsit

frikadela01 · 30/11/2016 18:19

The 30k property linked to in Halifax appears to be an auction property. We can all play the let's find the cheapest thing we can on right move game but ultimately that proves nothing. Yes houses can be had for very very cheap but there is likely a very good reason for it being so cheap.

The guide price for the Halifax property is also £29,000 less than when it last sold in 2007. Not such a good investment really.

Pisssssedofff · 30/11/2016 18:27

OneFlewOverTheDodosNest. Be careful that's what caught us out, ex had a very well paid job in the north west but when he lost it we were stuffed, couldn't afford even the midlands, started living apart and that was the beginning of the end

EnormousTiger · 30/11/2016 18:31

I know Halifax very well and there are a good few properties at that price level and the other poster above says it is cheaper there. People commute to cities with jobs from there. It is not awful. I like it actually. There are quite a few. Her eis one at £40k www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-61908152.html

By the way my sibling also lives in Yorkshire and commutes down to London regularly by train. I am not saying everyone can do that but plenty of us have done all kinds of things to solve the issue of work and buying a home.

frikadela01 · 30/11/2016 18:44

Did you just gloss over this bit:

*However well paying jobs here are exceedingly rare, and even full time NMW jobs are very difficult to find. Most people have to commute to Leeds, Bradford or Huddersfield to get to NMW jobs which means relying on dreadful public transport or spending a large proportion of their costs on running a car."

And the second house you linked is an absolute treasure... No doubt needs entirely rewiring, replastering, in fact an absolute fuck ton of work. But of course first time buyers should just take whatever the fuck they can get and like it. No doubt they can do the work the house required alongside all the overtime theyll need to do to pay for said work.

frikadela01 · 30/11/2016 18:51

Oh and suggesting a commute from Yorkshire to London as an answer to housing and work is nuts. Any saving you make in housing would be wiped out in commuting costs so unless you are very well paid or are only doing it one or two days a week as pp is then it's just not in any way a solution.

BarbaraofSeville · 30/11/2016 19:01

I know someone who commutes to her well paid job in Halifax from Leeds. She can't be the only one on more than NMW, I mean there are teachers, doctors, nurses, solicitors etc in Halifax.

frikadela01 I don't think FTBs should feel too hard done by with the house you are deriding - it looks very similar to our first house.

If FTBs are expecting houses that are large, perfectly decorated and in a desirable area with well paid work on the doorstep then it's no wonder that people are saying that expectations are unreasonably high and if they can't afford this they are'taking whatever the fuck they can get and like it'.

I don't think it's ever been the case that most FTBs are in a position to afford family properties in prime areas as their first property. Small terraces and flats are more typical first purchases.

TurquoiseDress · 30/11/2016 19:02

Yes frikadela
I totally agree
So much stuff around that needs work doing, to a greater or lesser extent.

Seen so many 2 bed flats that clearly have had v little care over the years, will need to do lots of work.

To buy one of them would be an absolute stretch and not much money left over to do anything apart from buy furniture.

TurquoiseDress · 30/11/2016 19:05

Just to add, it's all rather skewed as we're in SE London.

A "typical starter home" round here will set you back around £350k

That's for a 2 bed flat Shock

BarbaraofSeville · 30/11/2016 19:06

Whatever happened to people buying houses to live in? Now everyone thinks themselves as an amateur property developer and if a house isn't extended, fitted out and styled to the max 'it needs a fuckton of work'.

frikadela01 · 30/11/2016 19:22

Oops my bad.. when I click on right move links it opebs in the app and sometimes doesn't actually open the link so what I saw when I clicked that second link was one I'd viewed earlier that did indeed require a lot of work (the description even said it was in a sorry state). I apologise the one in Enormous Tigers last post doesnt require that much work granted.

However from my own searches for our new house (that needs to be the forever house. Dp is not in the greatest health and will need to go part time in the next few years) anything below around £120,000 does need a lot of work to be lives let and we'd need to be able to afford said work. Our search is in Bradford (a massive compromise for me bit we can't afford the places I want to live)

So again I apologise. My last post was talking about a house no one had even linked to. (Think not being touched since the 60s)

frikadela01 · 30/11/2016 19:23

*livable not live let's.

Ciutadella · 30/11/2016 19:31

Haha frikadella i nearly cross posted asking how you could tell that it needed rewiring and replatering! Fortunately read your post first though! Still it is true that not every teacher and nurse can live in halifax, so we need broader solutions as well.

I do think there is a gradual realisation that it would make sense to deter some people from having three or four houses when many in their 20s cant afford even one, so maybe there will be even more tax changes to discourage that. It makes sense to bring the tax changes in gradually to avoid a major shock to the property market. The real policy failure was to allow it to happen in the first place, not realising that ftbs were being crowded out. But to be fair i don't think the effect of low interest rates was that predictable - obvious with hindsight perhaps, but not at the time.

BarbaraofSeville · 30/11/2016 19:32

Depending on where in Bradford you are looking at frikadela we looked on this estate a few years ago and tried to buy, but couldn't sell our property in time.

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-63311891.html

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-56257810.html

Couple of other suggestions depending on where Bradford is a compromise instead of.

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-45691929.html

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-44851419.html

I live on the south west side of Leeds and know the area well. What are you looking for in terms of size etc?

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