To think the English attitude to learning can be very weird?

[DorothyL]

So often you read "no point in doing more than eight gcses/3 a levels, not needed for later/university"

How about doing subjects to LEARN something, not just to use them as a stepping stone? In other countries eg Germany youngsters continue with a broad range of subjects right through their school career.

Here I have met many teenagers who are woefully ignorant about all sorts of things - due to the fact they specialise far too early!?

[merrymouse]

Number 15 in the UK WHSmith Chart: Booker Prize winner, the Sellout.

Comes in below 3 more heartwarming books: "The Christmas Card", "Christmas Under the Stars" and "A Nightingale Christmas Carol", but at least manages to beat Number 17 "Dan TDM, Trayaurus and the Enchanted Crystal".

[Karatemonchichi]

"My father spent his whole career in sales/marketing in international publishing and witnessed all sorts of structural market shifts. Ease of publication and size of market are (unfortunately) not directly correlated to quality." That's very true. I must admit that I sued to be a keen buyer of the three for the price of two boo deals at Waterstones many years ago and consumed their novels targeted at 20 something women with great relish - in other words chick lit with a bit of history thrown into it . I spent a lot of money on these crappy but easy to read and escapist books but over the last 5 years I haven't bought as single one. There was a point where I couldn't take any of the novels any longer as they were all the same written according to some publishing success formula, I cannot bare that sort of writing anymore at all.

[Karatemonchichi]

"German publishing houses are not happy with the current paradigm!" I understand that's interesting. However you can simply not think that because of a lack of writers there is shortage of designers, artists, dil makers...

I do wonder though why there is alack of writing talent in Germany if what get describes is going on.

[Karatemonchichi]

*yes especially dil makers they are very special.
*film rather

[GetAHaircutCarl]

merry the UK is parochial in its book buying. Though this is changing.

But the publishing industry is as much driven by foreign sales as UK sales.

We are considered a world leader in this industry, not just in terms of volume sold but also quality. Ditto film and television. Ditto actors. Ditto fashion.

[GetAHaircutCarl]

karate I've asked why many times and got differing replies from many a German editor, production exec etc.

Partly cultural. Partly self fullfilling prophecy. Partly lack of support for talent.

[Bobochic]

The UK a world leader in fashion

[Bobochic]

Get - it sounds as if your German contacts don't understand how their industry is stitched up.

[merrymouse]

"merry the UK is parochial in its book buying. Though this is changing."

Yes, I suspect that the popularity of colouring books will make it easier to look abroad for content.

[merrymouse]

www.amazon.co.uk/books-used-books-textbooks/b/ref=nav_shopall_bo_books?ie=UTF8&node=266239&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

This list includes fiction and non-fiction.

'The Sellout' is number 92. 'His Bloody Project' is number 66. There are no other 'high brow' fiction books in the top 100.

I don't think this means that people in the UK are stupid. However, I also think it's difficult to make any sweeping generalisations about their creativity based on the publishing industry.

[Bobochic]

The UK is a world leader in supermarkets. Doesn't mean our food is better!

[roundaboutthetown]

This thread, however, appears to be all about sweeping generalisations.

[mathanxiety]

Bigmoughstrikesagain - what a great post.

[mathanxiety]

mouTH -sorry...

[mathanxiety]

Merrymouse
traditionally one of the features of UK education was not just early specialisation, but that the vast majority of people were expected to finish at 16 and leave without qualifications. Subjects studied at 14/15/16 by those planning on taking A-levels and go on to university were supposed to be hard and cover material that would be beyond the abilities of most of the population. By the time you were 16, you were ready to specialise.

This is because the English education system aims to produce an elite. It is not that interested in the standard of the vast swathe whose attainment will never approach that of the top tier.

This model served the interests of an imperial society and an industrial system that were swept away many decades ago.

[littleprincesssara]

I know next to nothing about the world of education, but I work in theatre and Berlin is globally acknowledged as being on the absolute cutting edge when it comes to new writing and avant garde theatre. I wonder what about Germany inspires that, or is it that theatre can be so much smaller without the commercial pressures of publishing?