To think the English attitude to learning can be very weird?

[DorothyL]

So often you read "no point in doing more than eight gcses/3 a levels, not needed for later/university"

How about doing subjects to LEARN something, not just to use them as a stepping stone? In other countries eg Germany youngsters continue with a broad range of subjects right through their school career.

Here I have met many teenagers who are woefully ignorant about all sorts of things - due to the fact they specialise far too early!?

[PurpleGold]

"For example Germany's system produces a paucity of creatives."

Really? I find this hard to believe. German art schools and academies are, across the board, fantastic and there are many apprenticeship based entries into creative professions. To get into any creative study place you do have to prove yourself from and apply with outstanding portfolios and heaps of experiences, most applicants have to try 2-3 times until they get admitted.

Form what I hear there is a lot of innovation especially in the digital arts and product design happening there. To my knowledge anyways.

[merrymouse]

How is history less academic? Surely you have to include atleast one humanity in your GCSE choices?

[GetAHaircutCarl]

purple for example Germany buys in the majority of its published X novels from other countries ( notably the UK).

My German publisher ( big house) says that they would love to publish more home grown stuff but the quality and quantity is not there. Similarly they struggle to sell their home grown work abroad ( obviously there are exceptions).

The same can be said of the native German film/television industry.

[PurpleGold]

I don't much know about the German literature scene so that's interesting to know.

The German TV industry is pretty established though. I have several family members and friends working in TV i n a wider variety of creative productions roles. I believe regional radio is a big thing too with many employed in radio programme production. I know for a fact that the media industry is pretty vibrant and employ highly educated creative professionals. I don't know much about about their fashion design but definitely graphic designers and web designers are highly qualified, the museum scene is also pretty substantial. I have criticised the German system (there is no perfect system) but I would definitely say they train people well for the creative industries.

[Igneococcus]

purple for example Germany buys in the majority of its published X novels from other countries ( notably the UK).

There are a lot more people who speak English as a first language than there are German speakers. Of course you'd expect more books to be written in English.

[GetAHaircutCarl]

That's not my point ig.

My point is that German publishers but in foreign books and translate them. Of course all countries do this to a lesser extent.

But Gernany and some other countries do it disproportionately because they don't have sufficient native writers of quality.

[GetAHaircutCarl]

purple of course there is a German film and television industry. Even the tiniest poorest countries have those.

But the fact is that Germany disproportionately buys in foreign stuff rather than makes its own. And it expects hardly anything.

[GetAHaircutCarl]

Exports not expects

[merrymouse]

Except for Scandinavia crime, do many European countries export much TV? I was under the impression that Britain benefitted greatly from sharing a common language with the US.

[merrymouse]

My point is that German publishers but in foreign books and translate them

I think the point is that far, far more people speak English as either a first or second language than speak German, therefore more books will be written in English.

You also have to take into account America's disproportionate cultural influence on the rest of the world.

[Igneococcus]

Well, Deutschland 83 won the international Emmy the other day.

I quite happily moan about German television when I'm there but it isn't quite the barren wasteland that it is made out to be in this thread.

[Natsku]

I think its just that the UK doesn't bother to import foreign language TV because there is so much English language TV already. In Finland we get TV programmes and films from all over the world as well as lots of finnish stuff (which is admittedly pretty poor quality - Finns don't know how to act, that is where the UK has the whole world beat) because everyone is used to reading subtitles on telly so doesn't matter what language the programme is in. I expect its similar for other European countries that don't dub.

[GetAHaircutCarl]

Yes, but most other non English speaking countries do not buy in anywhere near as many foreign books.

Germany do so, disproportionately.

As for television/film made in languages other than English, well there a relatively few outright exports. But what there is a lot of, of is sales in intellectual property. So a French production company might buy in a Dutch idea and make it in French. Or an American company might buy in an Israeli idea etc.

But Germany has little luck exporting here.

[CoteDAzur]

"people believe in homeopathy and detoxing in France and America"

I think you will find that those who do in these places tend not to be the higher-educated segment of the population, as those have the basic understanding of biology and chemistry necessary to reject these fantasies.

They also have a far better grasp on basic mathematics. Some of the math questions asked on MN, for example, are terrifyingly simple and MNers who are puzzled by them have at least 6th form/high school if not university education.

[sterlingcooper]

OT but in my experience the French really buy into medical intervention a lot more than Brits. They'll go to a doctor/kine/osteo at the drop of a hat, there are pharmacies EVERYWHERE, they have all sorts of weird complaints that seem to be commonly acknowledged as a thing but that I have never heard of eg 'heavy legs'.

I am constantly rolling my eyes at my (French engineer of a) DP when he tells me things like his podologue told him he has one leg slightly shorter than the other so needs special insoles, or he hasn't seen his osteo fir a while so should probably go for a general checkup. He is always horrified when I say I feel a bit achy/nauseous and then just take a nurofen or ibuprofen or whatever, he always says I should go to the pharmacy or doctor and get proper advice and proper 'meds'.

In terms of homeopathy etc...I know definitely a few well educated French that believe in it, but then I'd say the same for Brits. Anecdotally I havent really noticed that it is taken more seriously in one country or another.

[Cucumber5]

The other way of looking at this is that British students are more specialist in their chosen fields.

[CoteDAzur]

"I am constantly rolling my eyes at my (French engineer of a) DP when he tells me things like his podologue told him he has one leg slightly shorter than the other so needs special insoles"

Oh yes, it's all hilarious until this imbalance causes knee or hip problems. Which is what happened to me.

[CoteDAzur]

"British students are more specialist in their chosen fields."

We are talking about teenagers, before they get to university.

There is no excuse for a language or literature major, for example, to be completely ignorant about chemical reactions, properties of gases vs liquids, geometry, solar system etc. That is the world we live in, after all.

[merrymouse]

goop.com/the-8-essential-crystals/

www.elle.com/beauty/health-fitness/advice/a10714/the-grape-cure-388026/

This stuff is not aimed at poor people. Obviously it's possible to be rich and badly educated, but the more money you have, the more likely it is that you will have at least had a passing acquaintance with your country's education system.

I agree that people seem to forget basic maths, possibly because of lack of use. I also agree that in the UK it is acceptable to be bad at maths in a way that it isn't acceptable to be bad at spelling. However, that doesn't mean that people were never taught maths.

[merrymouse]

There is no excuse for a language or literature major, for example, to be completely ignorant about chemical reactions, properties of gases vs liquids, geometry, solar system etc

A lot of this stuff (most?) is covered in primary school and continues to be covered throughout the KS2 and GCSE syllabus. Whether or not people remember it is another matter.

[merrymouse]

Sorry, I meant to say KS3

[Dulra]

I haven't read all the thread but agree with op. I live in Ireland and do not for one minute think our education system is perfect it has like most many flaws but what I do like about it when comparing it to the UK system is that students have to study a broad range of subjects up to Leaving cert (A level equivalent done at 18). Students study 9 to 10 subjects for their junior cert done at 15 and 7 to 8 for their leaving cert. My dh is English and I can't believe how few subjects he had to do for A level. I think you are pushed to specialise far too young reducing your options before you have any clue what would suit you and what career options are even out there. I also think the model where you study up to GCSE and then move to a 6th form college problematic because it is easy for students to slip out of the system at this point. In Ireland they stay in their second level school until 18 and although we do have problems with early schools leavers I think there would be way more if they had to switch schools half way through their education.

[merrymouse]

Whether or not I stopped learning French or Biology or History at 16 or 18, it's more relevant that I stopped learning anything in school almost 30 years ago.

Happily, it has never been more possible to learn anything. I can listen to podcasts in French, I can learn about any basic science theory on Youtube, I can download the complete works of Shakespeare to my phone.

However, ignorant adults have never been more frightening.

It's not the children I'm worried about. It's the grown ups, and I don't think any education system has solved this problem yet.

[corythatwas]

GetAHaircutCarl Tue 29-Nov-16 09:33:59

"But Gernany and some other countries do it disproportionately because they don't have sufficient native writers of quality."

Are you sure? Or might it not partly be because great writers who write foreign languages are not on the British/American radar? That was one thing I did notice when I moved to the UK, how suddenly the great authors from the rest of Europe just seemed to disappear, nobody had heard of them. I don't think it's just the language: I think it's also the fact that because English is so dominant, British and American readers are not used to having to make the mental effort of understanding a work created in a different culture, even in translation.

Re the film/theatre industry I do, on the whole, agree though. British acting is far better resourced and British actors very well trained; the rest of Europe simply can't compete.