Can any managers tell me why my manager is behaving like this?

[woundedplacerias]

I have been covering for my line manager for the last 4 months as she has been off sick. This is not official and there has been no adjustment made to my own job, or extra payments, but the role has to be filled and I have stepped up accordingly as her 'deputy'. Our line manager gives me tasks to do that would otherwise have been given to her, but never really mentions the extra work I have had to take on, aside from one occasion when she briefly thanked me in an email.

An added complication is that when my line manager's current role came up (the one who is ill) we both went for it and obviously she got it. She was kind of next in line, but I had been hopeful and had been led to believe by management (including the woman I mentioned above) that I was more highly regarded and was in with a very good chance. Since then she has done very little and I have really had to support her in the role (before she went off ill). I know this sounds like sour grapes but it happens to be true and so many people within our organisation have told me I should have been promoted and she is not up to the job. She really isn't - she gives the impression of being both lazy and incompetent.

While she has been off I have made some changes to the way things are done - things I wanted to do had I been given the promotion when it came up. These changes have been very well received by the team I am now managing and I have been given nothing but positive feedback. Last week two team members went on a training activity with and came back saying how well prepared they were for forthcoming changes to our sector thanks to initiatives implemented by me. They even went to my line manager to tell her how well I am doing and how far ahead we are compared to other organisations. She cut them down and said sh didn't want to hear anything negative about the woman who is off sick - though they hadn't mentioned her at all. The team member told me it felt like she didn't really want to hear anything positive about me either.

AIBU to feel a bit use and to wonder why someone incompetent is protected and someone else is not valued or even thanked for making improvements for no money, time or even thanks?

I may be reading this wrong but it seems as though your team are talking negatively about your ill manager in her absence, and you aren't doing anything to stop that. By making a lot of changes you are clearly trying to show that they should have employed you instead, and tbh if I was your line manager I wouldn't be impressed - it comes across as though you and the team are trying to undermine her.

You may think the one who's off sick is lazy and incompetent but that isn't your call - she may be doing things the way her line manager wants.

I'd be wary of changing to much without a very clear go ahead from above - if you can't work like that then I'd look at moving on.

Wow - english so many assumptions!

"Undermining" "a lot of changes" I didn't get any of that from the OP.

I hate to do this but as a manager I get heartily fed up of people seeming to think that anyone off sick is somehow immediately beatified.

They are appropriate forums for any discussion and it is important not to allow gossip or negativity to take hold, particularly in someone's absence! They need our sympathy and support if they are genuinely struggling with an illness but it doesn't mean that incompetence should be overlooked or we should all pretend they were great if they weren't.

*there

Thank you for all the replies. Many comments have echoed things I was thinking anyway and it helps to have an outside point if view.

Obviously I don't want t put too many details on here, but, having worked alongside her for the best part of a decade, I do in fact know that that the woman off sick is lazy and incompetent. It may not sound kind but it's how it is. She used to be in my current role before the promotion I mentioned came up and she did nothing. I am already stinging because I am on the salary she used to be on doing significant parts of her role (the one we both went for) that she never did when she was in my role, if that makes sense. I honestly believe that she only went for the promotion because she didn't want the role reversal of me being her boss. We were the only 2 candidates and she left it till the last minute to apply.

The higher line manager was indeed on the interview panel and, as an added weirdness, over the years I have had to go to her when the other woman has messed up on tasks/not done them/caused morale in the team to be very low. There have been occasions when the higher line manager has been very candid with me about off sick woman's shortcomings.

I realise it could look bad that I am making changes in her absence, but as I stated in my OP there are big changes coming to our sector outside our control and we can't do nothing. Some I could have left, but many are really essential and have improved people's working lives.

I do have reason to believe the line manager off sick may not return in any case, but I do see how awkward it's going to be for everyone if she does.

I agree with English.

Quite recently I witnessed a not dissimilar situation. The changes implemented as soon as the original manager was out of action hadn't been run past senior managers or the wider team. Had they been consulted (or the person who took it upon themselves to make the changes looked beyond their own little fiefdom), they'd have realised that there were good reasons for things being the way they were.

Instead, senior managers and other colleagues were majorly inconvenienced and the eager beaver made themselves look self-serving, short-termist and untrustworthy.

If you have good management, they may be able to direct your enthusiasm constructively. I would (and this is from personal experience) strongly advise you to seek a job move. Things will likely become very difficult when your real manager returns, and even if she doesn't return you've likely blotted your copybook.

Totally agree with English girl. You sound quite contemptuous of your line manager and some of the conversations with other team members sound to be pretty unprofessional.

She may be incompetent, she may not, but you're clearly frustrated and I'd probably look elsewhere if you're not being recognised for your input.

Attitude is a massive part of getting a promotion where I am - loyalty and support of line managers is expected at all times (not always easy, but if you're criticising her, then logically they'll foresee you'll potentially criticise and undermine them too.)

Stop discussing her with any of the rest of the team. It will not benefit your position.

x-post op. I've also been in similar shoes to yours. Honestly, it really is time to look for another post.

I am contemptuous. Just recalled how, after the interviews for the promotion, the higher line manager told me (apologetically) the other woman's plans had 'a bit more detail' in them. since then, every decision to be made, every one, she has asked me about and pretty much all the changes that have been made since she took over have come from me anyway. She has had no ideas that I have seen evidence for, so I'd love to know what these details were she outlined at interview.

I do get, and fear, that I am going to be seen as a trouble-maker, and I also see the importance of loyalty. But what about staff morale? Morale has always been low with the other woman in charge, and now it's high. I do know that none of the changes I've made will need to be reversed. Does morale of a team count for nothing? These people are not my friends, btw, I don't see them out of work, they are just reacting to how they feel at work now.

I think that maybe the line manager is concerned that there are going to be problems when your manager comes back to work.

It sounds like your team feel that you're doing a great job as manager - which is great and you should be pleased about it - but, you're not their manager and won't be when your colleague returns to work.

They've got someone who's suffered from long term illness who maybe will need a gentle reintroduction into the work place coming back to people waving your flag, with you having changed their systems and seemingly done a much better job. With the best will in the world, that's enough to make even the most professional person feel shitty, particulalry if your team made their preference known.

Giving you the job on a permanent basis would be a HR nightmare and they may be wary of being legally challenged by your sick colleague so that is unlikely to be an option for them.

Youve unwittingly and with good intentions put your employers in a tricky position - and they may feel that you've overstepped the mark. I know where I work 'cover' is very different from doing the job and it would be considered innapropriate to change things when people are off unless they desperately needed changing...even then it would be run by more senior people.

It sounds as though you've outgrown your current role there though. I do think it is worth going to speak to your line manager (and do not mention your ill colleague) about some recognition for the work you've put in and possibly next steps to getting promoted/taking on more responsibilities - to be reflected in your pay, of course!

ime bad management trickles down from the top of the company. You will be pissing into the wind trying to sort anything out from the bottom up.

Is it time for you to move on to another company? Any around that have a reputation for innovation and change? You would be better suited to grow there rather than somewhere that doesn't really like change.

Your manager being off has in a way put their manager into a little bit of an awkward position. You have taken over the role and carried on with your own role so suddenly why do they need the old bod back?

So much of your post is similar to the position I was in. It was known that the actual content of my manager's role was actually done by me. It seems that everyone was simply standing back waiting for my manager to fail.

It did take me threatening to leave to get anything done.

When a staff member is off sick for months it is very disruptive for management. Over several years, I've had several people off for 3-4 months. In one case the longest sick note was for 2 weeks. So you are always unable to plan long term because the sick person is always 'just about to return'. As time passes however, you stop expecting the 2-week sick note to be their last. On one occasion we had got permission to recruit a temp, we had to spend time amending the original job description etc, we considered CVs from an agency, we interviewed, and the very next day the sick person announced they were coming back the following week. What a waste of time and effort!
I've also known someone to have a 4-week Fit Note but tell me 'my GP says I can come back earlier if I feel better'.
Meantime I am arranging support for her from OH. Managing sick people in the workplace is far from straightforward. The sick person may be telling your manager she'll be 'back next week' - every week for 4 months.

I'd look for a new job outside, in your shoes.

adner not really a lot of assumptions, the OP has been clear how she feels.

wounded I'm not criticising the work you do at all, and I get the frustrations of working for a poor manager when you know you can do a better job. But, for whatever reason she got the job, so you either suck it up or leave. From what you've said I'd leave. Even if she doesn't return, do you want to work for a business that rewards laziness and incompetence? Do you want to work for a manager who doesn't give praise? Sometimes you just don't fit with a company culture. It sounds like you enjoy change, new ideas etc., but work in a business that is set in its ways and doesn't want anyone rocking the boat?

I'm a manager - Rusty and EnglishGirl have both made good points. Remember this is not about what you actually think or do, but how it is perceived by other people, including other managers, in your firm.

Managing can be a really fine balance; whilst making changes which are positive for morale can be great, you also need to consider what that looks like to an outsider. Did you get buy-in for your plans from your (temporary) line manager? If not then be careful that this doesn't look like empire building whilst someone is off sick. As PP have said there may be good reasons why they appointed her instead of you.

It's also fab that your team are giving good feedback about you, but again if you aren't engaging with other managers to provide transparency about your plans, and also making it clear how this benefits your line manager who is absent plus the firm, then it is going to look like you are building bridges with your direct reports to alienate them from the other manager and align their loyalty to you. Again I'm not saying that this is your intention, but this is what it may look like.

You need to decouple yourself from the other manager and stop thinking about her as a rival. In your working life this will probably not be the last time that you go up against another colleague for a promotion. Losing out and being disappointed is something that you need to learn how to manage professionally. So switch the focus on to your personal development; if you haven't done so already then ask for feedback about why you were unsuccessful, then take this and form development objectives from it. Continue to ask for feedback about your progress against these objectives - make it clear you are serious about your professional growth. Assuming your firm is reasonably fair about these things then this approach should pay dividends. However it is contingent about how you behave - and are seen to behave - during that period as well.

I saw an example of this at an old firm. Two reasonably well matched people went for an internal promotion and one lost out. The one who was unsuccessful was very disappointed - understandably so. Unfortunately they chose to be quite vocal about this to the rest of the team and other colleagues. They also drew comparisons on a regular basis about how they would have done things differently and it created a chasm in the team with some people siding with him, and others trying to not get involved.

What this individual didn't know, was that they had missed out on the promotion by a couple of points on the benchmarking score. The person who was successful had the edge on some technical experience, but both candidates were strong. So whilst they didn't get the job, they'd been earmarked for a future managerial position which was due to be created in the next 3-6 months as the organisation was expanding. This was strategic planning and therefore confidential information which was restricted only to the people involved in the project, which included the hiring manager. But the behaviour of the individual in the months after the interview made it clear that they were not suitable for a management role - so when the next position was created a few months later, they weren't even offered an interview for it.

Moral of the story is that just because you can't see an open door right now, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist or that it's not going to be created in the future. The way that an unsuccessful candidate behaves in the months after losing out, is often closely watched by senior managers because they want to see how that person will respond and if they will step up to the challenge.

Haven't RTFT, but is your CPD up to date? Have you accessed all the training your company can offer/fund? Have you taken everything your employer has to offer? If so, why are you still there? You should always be gaining experience and qualifiactions with an employer and moving on.

Can you make subtle enquiries about vacancies with companies that you work with, so it may filter back you are looking to leave. Take odd days leave for interviews spa day!

Sadly, you are worth more to them in your current role, so why would they promote you? I'd doesn't benefit you to wait around being good in your role onthe off chance, but by making noises they will ask if YOU have problems working with xxx.

I agree with a PP that it's often who you know rather than what you know. I once applied for one of two internal promotions that were only open to our department. I know I gave a great interview and presentation as well as achieving the highest scores on the tests we took as part of the process. The jobs went to the boss's friends, one of whom had already left the dept 6 months earlier and was therefore not actually eligible to apply. When I questioned this during post-interview feedback boss said "oh, but it felt like she never left". I was also criticised for not covering the same points during my presentation as the successful candidates - I asked had they chosen the same topic as me (we'd been given a choice of two)? "Erm...no". I know this comes across as sour grapes but it genuinely was a complete stitch-up. The colleagues and managers I actually worked with were gobsmacked I didn't get the job.

If you feel you aren't getting anywhere and you're genuinely sure you're doing a good job then I'd start looking for something else. You can be the greatest worker ever but if it doesn't fit in with their agenda you're on a hiding to nothing. Shortly afterwards I accepted a senior admin job elsewhere and was made a team manager by the end of the month.

They are not protecting someone incompetent - she is ill. What is it you would lack them to do? Sack her?

They are not protecting someone incompetent - she is ill. What is it you would lack them to do? Sack her?

What this individual didn't know, was that they had missed out on the promotion by a couple of points on the benchmarking score. But the behaviour of the individual in the months after the interview made it clear that they were not suitable for a management role - so when the next position was created a few months later, they weren't even offered an interview for it.

Oooh, this sounds so familiar - I'm a manager, and am currently having to manage the behaviour of an unsuccessful promotion candidate. She is seriously not happy, even brought a "friend" (who happens to be a union rep) to a discussion about her personal development after the interview. We are having to tread incredibly carefully, crossing every t, dotting every i, much to the annoyance of her colleagues who think she is getting special treatment now.

OP, the best advice I can give is to use this time as the opportunity to bolster your CV by taking on opportunities to lead the team and improve process. That way it is productive time. You should also be keeping the senior line manager informed of any process changes, as they will need to include the changes when holding welfare/return-to-work discussions with the absentee manager.

If this is private sector then IME your current manager won't be coming back. However if there are any problems with her departure (e.g. grievances raised) then the senior mgmt team may be nervous of doing anything which rocks the boat until the situation with your current manager is resolved.

Do not be surprised to find that if you are offered anything that it won't be the full promotion. You will be given a small raise and there will be some mumbling about the role being 'different' despite to the naked eye being identical.

Eventually you will get fed up and feel used so leave. To fill the role it will have to be paid at the original level. It isn't fair but that is how companies work.

Talk to ACAS. Find out what your rights are.
The Acas helpline number is 0300 123 1100. It is available Monday 8am-8pm, Tuesday 8am-6pm, Wednesday to Thursday 8am-8pm, Friday 8am-6pm and Saturday 9am-1pm.

www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=2042

"They are not protecting someone incompetent, she is ill"

The issues are entirely separate. She could be both incompetent AND ill. And tough though it may be, her illness should not protect her from the consequences of being incompetent, if that is the case.

The truth is that we MNers cannot know for sure exactly what her competence is. I'm surprised though at the number of posters who are assuming that OP is incorrect in her assessment.

However, it is certainly true that there may be also other factors in play which management are aware off (and OP may not be) which is why I think she should be careful to separate her own situation from any discussion of the absent manager's performance.

I am assuming it is due to illness, because 4 months is a long time off. That points to a major operation or treatment, which would almost certainly affect her work capabilities before going off.
As a manager, if someone has been a great employee for years, then yes I would absolutely cut them slack if they were not performing as usual, before a period off sick.
And the OP is behaving unprofessionally.

Quite right brasty IF they had been a great employee for years, I agree. Of course, as a manager, I would go to great lengths to support and sustain an employee who was going through a loss of performance due to illness.

However, if what OP has said is correct, then it doesn't sound like that has been the case.

In my previous line of work it was relatively common for employees to be off for 4 months or more and the usual reason was stress, often understandably. Sometimes, however, it was a cover-up for someone out of their depth and not up to the job.