To think that she can't have bpd and asd

[Allofme78]

My 21 year old daughter has been seeing cmht after Mutiple sucide attempts. It's been suggested that she may have bpd but looking at two conditions I can't see how she can have both due to the overlap of them.

GinAndTonic that was totally uncalled for. This is a parent trying to ensure her daughter gets the right help, who is concerned that the diagnosis being suggested isn't appropriate

And plenty of people with ASD struggle with regulating emotions and reacting appropriately

Gin the OP is clearly trying to educate herself, that's why she posted. She is obviously going through a very difficult time and came here for support.

Imo lots of young women are misdiagnosed with bpd when the cause of their behaviours is asd.

Since when dones a neuro divergent diagnosis mean emotional dysregulation is excluded, Gin?

OP, I'm so sorry about your DD. Ignore ginandtonic.

Having certain traits as a result of one condition does not mean that you can't have another condition in which the same traits are apparent. However, if you feel that certain traits are being cherrypicked to fit a diagnosis, and then another one, and another one, you're right to point out that in a sense a cause has already been attributed to those symptoms - it would be a reason to go back and look at the first diagnosis.

It seems very unfair, but life experiences do have a part to play in triggering personality disorders. So the presence of past experiences that would 'explain' why your DD show traits of a disorder would not necessarily make it less likely that she has it. Not at all. However, I have very little time for a lot of personality disorders anyway to be honest, particularly BPD which is an awfully convenient and useless label to attach to vulnerable young women.

Sorry, I should have said useless in my humble opinion!

She's impulsive in the sense that she will send emails/say things to people without thinking.

GinandTonic, you seem like to be having trouble regulating your emotions this evening. If not the ASC then you have no excuse for being so unpleasant.

OP, I do get what you are saying. My DS2 with ASD has always had trouble regulating his emotions. He's always been either very exuberant, completely inconsolable or passive. That is due to his autism. He's been this way since he was 3. He's now 17.

I think it's entirely possible that your DD is being misDXed. Ask fir a second opinion if possible from someone with autism experience.

Gin and Tunic WTF? That was really rude and over the top, don't be giving away your biscuits any time soon.

Anyway OP, get a second even third opinion, because yes ASD in females is often misdiagnosed as a whole host of mental illnesses and disorders.

I hope you are both getting the support you need

Thank you all.

I have a friend who has dxs for both. There's been some debate about whether both should 'stand' or the BPD dx should be superceded by the AS dx.

(She seems pretty classically ASCish to me, but I have more knowledge and experience of ASCs than PDs, so I might be biased in my perception.)

Unfortunately there's still an issue around stigmatisation of PDs, so that's a complication worth bearing in mind.

TBveryH, I suspect the team an adult is seen by will have a degree of influence on what they look for and the order in which they consider different explanations.

Is a private opinion a possibility?

I meant to say everyone I worked with had the asd dx as children followed by npd as young adult. Imo pda (which can be part of asd) most closely resembles bpd (which had a better, less gendered more upto date criteria now)

I was diagnosed with Aspergers at 17, BDD at 22 and BPD at 24. My therapist said they often go hand in hand. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

Gin my children's extreeme inability to deregulate their emotions definitely is part of their asd/pda

& I'm not nt either, adHD in my case

Dh nephew was diagnosed with asd first then the diagnosis changed to bpd in his teens. The doctor he saw in Germany said he was probably bpd from a very young age but the doctors in India wouldn't have looked for it necessarily at that age.

You haven't offended anyone OP. GinandTonic I have reported your post as I found it very high handed and offensive to a mother who is struggling to understand the diagnosis that has been given to her daughter.

I don't know a great deal about the diagnoses -I think BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) gets confused with Bi-Polar Disorder. Having said that I thought that BPD was now being re-named as "Emotionally unstable/intense Personality Disorder" which sounds a little less judgemental. I think sometimes this BPD (personality disorder) is used as something of a "catch all" diagnosis when nothing else fits. After all it's the same with all mental illness, or psychological distress or personality problems, autism, aspergers, there is no diagnostic tool - it's just a question of looking at symptoms and coming up with a diagnosis.

I think the main thing regardless of the diagnoses is that your DD is getting the right support, although I know that can be thin on the ground in the present climate.

My sister has a diagnosis for both. And ADHD. She got the ADHD one first, then the borderline, then went looking for the ASD one, which one specialist says she has but another was not sure. She kind of wanted the ASD one as its easier to explain one self with (to yourself and others) as she worries that borderline personality is a medical way of saying you're not a nice person. Not somthing I agree with by the way. I feel she is a bit of a venn diagram of all to be honest, with the BPD the strongest. Mental health conditions are not cut and dried and often overlap. I feel her autistic traits could have made her more vulnerable to the difficulties in our childhood that made her vulnerable to BPD in a way that I was not. My mother (who works on the care side with people on ASD) is also more comfortable with the ASD as childhood trauma is thought to be a significant factor in BPD. Our mother had serious MH problems when we were growing up along with some other not great stuff, so BPD diagnosis makes my mum feel even worse about it all (though your daughters friendship issues if they caused serious bullying might account for that factor). My sister is currently in hospital with pneumonia, respiratory failure and noe fluid round her heart due to lifestyle choices. I'm broken hearted too. So hard watching someone you love hurt themselves due to MH problems. I feel for you Allofme78

I don't know enough about the two together to offer my option but I do know that personality disorders sadly are still very stigmatised within mental health services. I would query this given her age. Having worked in mental health social work, I have noted a worrying trend in diagnosing young adults with personality disorders while their personalities are still developing. Has she been offered any specific BPD therapy e.g. DBT. It also concerns me when people are given a diagnosis but no clear treatment plan or any real information about what this may mean for her.

No she's hasn't been offers dbt. She's waiting to see the pysch in December.

I would second being very careful to have in writing exactly what help a personality disorder diagnosis would offer. It's certainly helpful to a consultant because it 'explains' why some problems seems to go on and on without resolution - and refers the problem onto a psychologist's waiting list. But it will also be on your DD's medical records for a very long time - despite the fact that BPD sometimes appears to 'wear off' as people grow up .

Employers and admissions teams will need endless reassurance and explanations, and unfortunately there is a stigma. Don't rush into it, especially if there's not much point.

That's what I'm
Going to ask for. Thank you everyone

stbxh has both diagnoses.