Who is unreasonable? Issue with older person travelling uninsured in Europe.

[shovetheholly]

I don't have a stake in this argument - I'm very much a bystander. Submitting it to the Mumsnet hive mind for consideration.

Adult 1 is older, (70) has a stent in his heart and mobility problems. He is awaiting surgery for the latter. He can still get out and about, however, and enjoys a fairly active retirement. He is decently well off and wants to travel. However, he is appalled at the cost of travel insurance. As a consequence, he is thinking of going abroad to Europe uninsured. His point of view is that the EHIC will limit the potential cost of any accident to around £10k and he can afford to pay this should something happen. He has a tendency to regard insurance as 'tempting fate' and insurance companies as a rip off.

Adult 2 is younger (44). He thinks Adult 1 is wrong that the cost of any treatment would be limited to £10k. He believes that the premium is higher because an accident or emergency is more likely, and that travel insurance ought to be bought to cover potential costs, particularly given that the price is affordable to Adult 1. Adult 2 is generally risk-averse and cautious with money.

Who, in your opinion, is right?

I think the problem is that adult one is refusing to look into things in any detail and will rely on adult two to sort everything out for him if things go tits up. Which is really mean.

I have relatives of about this age. The husband is in poor health. The wife in very robust health. After getting clearance from their doctors they went on a cruise. Upon which time the husband's health deteriorated severely. They were removed from the cruise to a hospital in the Middle East. Where they stayed for 6 weeks. Husband in the hospital. Wife in a hotel near the hospital. In order to get him home they needed nurses on the flight with him, and to fly another family member out for logistical support.

They had travel insurance. Thankfully.

Just make sure that Adult 1 knows that if it all goes tits up you WONT be starting a crowd funding campaign to bring him home!!

Is Swiss assist a good compromise for adult 1?

After getting clearance from their doctors they went on a cruise

I know this poster's not talking about Europe, but many cruise passengers are unaware that EHIC does not cover you when on a cruise holiday as you're not even classed as a temporary resident of the country where the ship docks.

Adult 2 is right obviously.

I think anyone regardless of age or health is an absolute idiot for not having travel insurance.

I tore my 20 year old off a strip for being blase about insurance. He thought it was something 'people like his Nana' had and wasn't for the average person. I put him right and told him it wasn't just the cost of medical care but repatriation as well.

FWIW...This is the first years my folks havn't been to the States as the insurance is so prohibitive for my Dad who has had a stroke

Saga do specialist insurance too. Not just linked to booking holidays through them. I'd recommend Adult 2 gets a quote for annual insurance for adult 1 from them.

DMIL had to be helicoptered off a boat onto land then ambulanced to hospital once, that was itemised by insurance for quite a bit more than £10k alone.

The 10k is a fantasy number he's made up and has no basis in reality.

If the financial impact doesn't matter to him, can you appeal to his better nature with regards to his partner- he or she will have the mother of all headaches if left to deal with a medical emergency alone abroad, in a foreign language. Does he really want to land that on them?

I don't know a lot about insurance, but I once worked in a pub where a gentleman (late sixties) took himself off to the Dominican Republic. He droned on before leaving about the good deal he'd got on his travel insurance (I think it was Sun Alliance, but not sure). A few other regulars teased him and said he was being over-cautious.

He had a fall - bad one - while he was on holiday (poor chap, he was lovely). He was taken to hospital in Miami, then flown back to the UK with a nurse. Without the TI, he would have spent a fortune. So from his story, Id say it's essential, especially as the older man you describe is in his seventies. I'm rubbish with this stuff and would generally be inclined to think 'fuck it', but his story stayed in my mind. Gently encourage him to get it - could you and younger adult help out?

Those saying adult 1 is selfish are missing the point. It is very difficult to get insurance at all. Insurers' view towards the elderly are simply ridiculous. Just because you are over 70 does not mean you are more likely to have an accident or your flight be delayed!

They can provide insurance but carve out healthcare. But you can still be covered for lost luggage, delays etc. But many insurers will not cover over 70 or over 80s full stop. So if they want to go away they have to travel without insurance - my mother has a friend in her early 90s who had cancer in her 40s. It has never recurred, yet she can't get cover. So she travels without.

Sorry I meant to say they COULD provide insurance but carve out healthcare. The point is they could but don't. They won't cover for anything.

Adult 2 is right. Anyone, regardless of age is crazy to travel outside the UK with good travel insurance.

Yes purple - I think the lack of provision for the older population is ridiculous, especially in light of a generation who are very definitely still 'young' in their attitude and who have resources to finance it. It's like the industry is lagging behind here.

However, I suspect that you can buy insurance for anything if you look hard enough! I suspect we're talking a specialist provider and a cost of something like £800-1000 in total. That's a lot of money but, although i don't know the details of their financial circumstances, I'm fairly sure it is peanuts to Adult 1. He talks about being able to pay tens of thousands in hypothetical medical costs out of savings, so I assume he has reasonable and liquid reserves. I think he has a lifetime habit of looking after his money very closely, however, and that this is about resenting the 'waste' of a lost £1k more than the risk of a potentially huge bill. He can be very stubborn, however, so I don't fancy Adult 2's chances of changing his mind.

For most people, yes it is crazy to travel without insurance, but what about those where the insurance is very expensive, and the person is wealthy?

What if they are extremely wealthy and can afford the cost of hospitalisation or repatriation even if it costs hundreds of thousands, especially if they are only travelling to Europe, so aren't risking US style medical bills and due to age/condition, insurance is impossible or very expensive?

Say their insurance per trip would be £1000 due to illness, but are currently well and a wealthy retired person might take a holiday nearly every month. Should they pay nearly £10k pa in insurance, because of what 'might' happen? Or should they sensibly choose to take a risk and cough up if necessary?

Insurance companies make a profit, so take more in premiums than they pay out. Most people spend a lot of money on insurance that they never claim on, but have insurance to stop them being ruined should the worst happen.

A very wealthy person would not be ruined by an unexpected £50k bill, therefore they may legitimately choose to take the risk, having rationally considered how it would effect them.

My Gran had an accident in Greece. Luckily she was insured as the operations and flights back with medical assistance would have been almost a million.

There are specialist insurers, think one is based in sweden but sells policies internationally.

Adult 1 is being irresponsible and very unfair on their partner and family to risk travelling uninsured.

It's not just medical. Cancellations, accommodation, lost luggage, broken electricals....

Does he think he should drive without insurance? Happy to pay lifelong medical costs of the person he accidentally paralyses in a crash?

OP, I don't think you mentioned when they were travelling? If it is after Brexit, I'd imagine that an EHIC will be invalid anyway.

Maybe adult two should just refuse to go with him then

What would adult1 say if you told them the 10k limit isn't true....?

Adult 2 will carry the burden of the stress if it too.

As others have said the European Health Card doesn't cover everything. I had to pay thousands of euros for an ambulance transfer in Italy - and that was within the country. Repatriation is really expensive. Not to be morbid but I also know someone who died abroad without insurance - that was even more costly, although of course he wouldn't have to pay it!

Yes, because it's worth paying £800 in insurance in case you lose your £400 ipad or £500 accomodation costs.

I bet some of you spend hundreds of pounds a year insuring your washing machines.

From the update from the OP, Adult 1 is probably making a sensible decision.

You can drive without insurance. You just have to be backed by the government - many public bodies do this, or lodge £500k with Lloyds of London.

My dad turns 80 while he is away on a long trip to South Africa, so the insurance he gets via his bank account would no longer be valid (and they expected him to come home before he turns 80 as any new insurance has to start while he is in the UK).

He did a lot of shopping around for new insurance - most of the quotes were for over £1000! (Including Saga! ) He managed to find one (unfortunately I can't remember with whom) which was roughly £340 for a (long) single trip or £300 for annual (including the long trip)

He bought immediately!