To feel left out of this important decision.

[pregnantat50]

My sister is putting mum in a care home She gave me a lift home and stopped the car in lay-by, looked at me and said "Pregnant, this is so hard for me to say but me and BIL have been visiting care homes for mum and we have found one locally that can take her" However, despite my sister having power of attorney the care homes said, If my mum has an understanding of what a hospital is then the decision is still hers (my mums is forgetful but still eats, feeds the cat, and functions in society, she does forget names and whether children are her children or her grandchildren) My sister says she worries about mum when she is abroad and I am at work, she imagines her getting lost or doing something dangerous. I can see her point but mum will be devastated and what about her cat!

My sister is waiting for the next appointment with mums oncologist as the care home said it may be my mum needs more specific end of life care linked to her cancer rather than her alzheimers. I feel so powerless but understand my sister is just wanting the best for mum. Its sad, I have always thought mum would stay in her home until the end of her life and I dont feel that is imminent.

I am taking mum to see an optician on Saturday as since her cataract operation her eye sight has improved and she needs a new prescription, My sister has told me not to mention anything to mum, but I feel like a traitor to her, I always promised mum she wouldn't end up in a home.

AIBU to feel my sister should have discussed this with me before she got to this stage, I would also like to have been included in visiting the care homes for peace of mind to ensure they are the right place for mum.

I mean POA

I understand OP - I am approaching this point with my mum too.

I haven't rtwt, & while I think it's odd your sister didn't discuss it with you, I'd hold off on thinking about moving in, were it me. Alzheimer's is pretty unpredictable & she could plateau at this semi-coping for a long time or she could quickly get worse.

My mum, while is assisted living, went from making herself tea & toast in the morning then joining others for activities, to repeatedly wandering off & getting lost in the city at night, in the winter and boiling kettles dry. Ooh, and also she was hiding wet towels under her bed.

It was not a good time. Often a home is the best place. Your loved one is safe, fed, near medical professionals, & with people their own age. Often the idea of them being at home means more to us than it did to them.

My mum was pissed off when I moved her. She'd gotten over it by the next day - Alzheimer's is like that.

Move back in with your mother. Your sister is just being jealous because she is unable to look after her as much as she would. Your mother is dying. Who knows how much longer she has. And once she has gone you will be guttered. I have lost my parents and I'd give anything to have another day with them. Your mother doesn't want to go into a home. She loved you being there. Enjoy what little time you have left with her. At the end of the day, you have to do what you think is right for your mother not what is right for your sister. If she goes into a home, when she passes you will be beating yourself up with guilt. Think of yourself and your mother before your sister.

I'd echo what fluffnuts is saying - someone with capacity to make the decision about their accommodation cannot be overridden by someone else just because they have POA. I'm a hospital SW and face this a lot.

May I ask who is funding the care? As you mentioned her having cancer and talk of end of life care, is this NHS funding? Sorry to ask, but it is important. If you have concerns you can ask for a SW assessment to take place, and they will support your family in making these decisions.

I know it is hard for families, I see it everyday, but ultimately if someone understands the risks surrounding their choices, we are all free to make them, regardless of how unwise they may be. If a capacity assessment has been undertaken with regards to the decision about where she wants to live and why, it is open to challenge if you wanted to.

Does not matter that she has both she cannot go against your mum's wishes. Once a doctor has said your mum cannot make decisions, she can use it. Even if your mum is making bad decisions, which my mum was, and possibly yours too, she has that right.

My brother asked me once what sort of a 'right' is not to be able to take care of yourself? I just said it "hers."

Just checked on google maps. By Public transport it is 10 min walk, bus for 6 minutes, walk for 10 mins, train for 8 minutes, walk for 8 mins, bus for 40 mins, walk for 8 mins. It is doable as long as all the connections and timings are OK. (total of 82 minutes - a lot of that is the last bus journey which has 45 stops!)

By taxi it would be 55 minutes so maybe another option.

As a teenager I lived for some years with my DPs, DBs and my frail DGM who gradually developed dementia. She never went into a home because she became acutely ill, went into hospital, and died. I know the last months were tough on my DM but she felt satisfied that she'd cared for her DM and given her quality of life.

One of your DCs is old enough to go out for meals with his girlfriend, so your kids are no longer tiny. You were all very happy living together before. Why not move back in? Living with my DGM added a lot to my life. Family is precious.

Your sister is out of the country a lot, so it's not going to affect her so much. Suggesting your DM goes into a home you would find almost impossible to visit is insensitive to say the least. Has she always been a bit clumsy?

Of course if you and 4 DC live with DM for years and are still living in your DM's house when she dies you might have grounds to claim a right to continue to live there. I'm no expert, but I seem to remember reading something about this.

I started reading thinking your sister was being kind but now I'm not sure.

As things stand, your DM is fully able to make decisions so neither you nor your sister have any right to make plans she hasn't authorized. Any plan that is made should put you and your DC being able to visit your DM near the top of the list.

Why has only one sister got power of attorney? I don't think power of attorney gives people the right to override someone's wishes while they're still in their right mind.

Hi pregnant,

I feel I had to respond to this, as my MIL is 6 weeks into a care home (mid-stage Alzheimers) after point blank shutting down all other at-home care options which until then she'd been very accepting of. She'd also become a danger to herself in a number of different ways I won't bore you with here. Like your mum, she also had a cat that she lived and breathed for (now with us).

MIL is also very articulate and capable in many ways - but an absolute risk to herself in many more others. Unfortunately dementia isn't a flat decline in this respect...

It has been a long five years caring for her, an agonising 6 months fighting just to get SS to acknowledge she was at a point that full-time care was needed.

We are fortunate OH is an only child, as if a sibling had tried to block the decision (hard-won, and long agonised over) I think the relationship between all of us would have entirely broken down, particularly if that sibling was less involved in day-to-day care, or more "in denial" than OH and I at that point (not saying that is the case with you - but believe me, I understand the denial stage all to well!).

OH and I were at utter breaking point by the time MIL - far too late for her own good and not before a final night flooded out of her flat after blocking the toilet flushing down rags - was finally moved. I seriously think one or both of us would have broken under the strain had it carried on even just days longer...

If your DS is at this point, it's important you listen to her, and don't hold her hostage to your sentiment that "you promised" your mum wouldn't go into a home. That is a promise made only by those who don't understand the sheer impossibility, and agony, of caring for someone with dementia long-term - and with cancer in the mix as well, her needs are only going to increase.

MIL is adjusting slowly - I won't say it's been a pretty 6 weeks, but she is getting there. The cat - the point we worried about most in engineering the move - she hasn't mentioned once!

Btw, MIL had an understanding of what a hospital and a care home were too - that in itself does not equal mental capacity, but rather being able to weigh up risk to oneself if one goes in / does not go in, and logical results of that decision, etc.

I sympathise with your DS, who as POA has likely taken the responsibility of care home viewing (which is a horrible process, btw) on her shoulders, in order to spare the other siblings going through it. She is not making the decision without you, only informing you that she has done the research.

I only wish someone could have done all of the above for us!

Maybe I'm projecting my own situation a bit here, but I'd strongly advise that you listen to your DS on this one.

Sorry, I just saw your Mum will be self funding this care. Regardless of your sister having POA (I take it it has been registered?) she has to work within the guidance and rules this sets out and she must involve your mother as much as she can in decision making. Your Mum needs a voice in all of this and it sounds like she may need support in doing so.

Thank you LadyShiraz I have said I will suport my Sis on her decision but that I wanted mum to have a say too. It sounds like you went through a lot with you DMIL. I dont want to get old myself (it runs my family)

Is your sister going abroad and wont be back for maybe a year and trying to put your dm into a care home because in a years time that is where she thinks your dm will have deteriorated to. Not understanding that she doesn't need a care home now or in the next few months but might do in a years time so crossing that bridge when it comes but as she won't be here she cant be in charge

Iyswim

Before you rush into looking after your Mum, consider a few of the things you might have to do for her. Are you prepared to help her evacuate her bowels when she forgets how to? On the rare occasion my Grandad remembered, he left little parcels all around the place in the middle of the night. Will you be able to sleep through the night when she cries for help all night long and sleeps all day. When it is time to take the little one to Nursery/Playschool, who will look after your Mum whilst you're gone? What will you do when you go to hang the washing on the line and you return to find your Mum has disappeared and the baby is in bed?

I speak from experience as my Grandad moved in with me and descended into dementia at a rapid pace. By the time he went to hospital to die, he needed 24 hour care. He couldn't feed, speak, recognise anyone or control his bodily functions. I was lucky as we could afford to pay for someone to come in during the day for a while but it was the most exhausting time of my life. There were funny times, sad times and horrendous times which I wouldn't change for all the world but had I known what I was taking on, I would have thought twice.

By taxi it would be 55 minutes so maybe another option.

I really don't understand how that could be described as "locally" as in your OP

Well said Lady Shiraz!

I think we have a duty of care, & that often means putting our loved one into care. If you moved in, unlike in a care home, you could not be there 24/7, which would leave your mum at risk of wandering, starting a fire accidentally, etc.

Lots to think about.

Is there a local Alzheimer's support group you could talk to?

AliasGrace yes it has been registered, she got me to sign something as well as mum. I am happy for her to have POA as she is a moral, kind person and I would trust her in that respect. To be honest I think I am being U in being upset, it was just it really hit home to me thinking about everything. In my head mum is still mum, she is like a puppy and pleased to see us when we visit and chatters away about her day, she told me all about her book she was reading (A cat called Bob). In some ways she is still all there. My Sis is more worried that she forgets to clean her teeth or wears the same clothes for a week. I can see that long term its is the only solution for her. :(

Oh, and I meant to say, my family support (like his daughters) disappeared rather rapidly the moment they realised there was a lot of yucky stuff to do.

I really don't understand how that could be described as "locally" as in your OP confused - Its funny but I do consider it local but I guess it isnt really, its a village my parents considered moving to when they retired and talked about a lot, so I got it into my head its just down the road :)

I think most people who move into care homes feel, or their families feel they should have gone their sooner rather than wait for some emergency situation. Then you can choose the home and the person can make friends and get to know staff and the routine in the home whilst they have the capacity.
There's nothing to stop you visiting the chosen home to see what it is like.
I think your DSis is probably making the right decision.
You can still take DM out for a meal or spend time doing a jigsaw. I think you are being too optimistic about long term care by you and your family. Especially if she won't have nurses in to give her her medication.

I am glad there's no inheritance issues to cloud things.

I think that journey to the carehome sounds quite arduous (especially if dc are included). I would talk to your dsis, with that information in mind and see if you can both look again to see if there's somewhere suitable easier to get to/nearer to you.

pregnant

Unless there's something you've not told us here (because it's obvious to you, not because you're deliberately not telling us!) then I think you just need to put your foot down.

You moving into your Mums seems like the perfect solution.

Do all you can to stay in a position where you can resume work in the future and do what you can to give your Mum a quiet place in the house to retreat to if family life gets a bit noisy.

There's no way on gods little green earth I'd put my mum in a care home if I had this option.

yeoldma - we have already had a few of those things happen, and yes I am prepared to do that. I bathed my mum when she has an 'accident' in the past although that was not so much caused by the dementia but due to the cancer. Cleaning up after her isn't an issue for me, i did the same for my dad when he had bowel cancer. I do understand your comments though as I am not a youngster myself.

There are lots of options other than long term care for your Mum, make sure you explore them before the decision is made so that you know you feel happy and secure with it. Do you know how/when your sister will discuss it with her?

Some talks about your mum needing to let nurses etc... in is essential and knowing that the other option is a care home might be enough to make her change iyswim.

Not if that person doesn't retain the conversation for more than 30 seconds.

I think your sister is trying to save you from yourself, tbh.

This.

I don't think people at this stage in the Alzheimers process fully know what they're letting themselves in for in the future, tbh (I certainly didn't - who could?).

It might be all nice and cosy living together for a while, but it can quickly become an absolute living hell - and a dangerous hell for all of you if she can't be trusted around gas, not to leave water running, requires 24/7 assistance in eating, toileting, etc. In the end, you just end up lurching from emergency to emergency until something happens that's so bad no one can deny or minimise the situation any longer.

The experience nearly destroyed me at 35 and my OH at 53 (he has had two breakdowns as a result in the last three years) - God knows what it would do to children or teens in that situation.

I agree though the choice of home should be decided together. If she's a self-funder, I'd be surprised if this place were the only option. MIL wasn't, and the worst part of the last year was the long, drawn out fight to convince SS that she did in fact need the care - even when she was drinking shampoo, eating cat food, and routinely walking in front of traffic. I'm relieved for you that this is a battle you don't have to fight.

MIL has benefited greatly from being in the home - she's fed and watered properly, has put on weight, and enjoys interacting with the staff and the stimulation she gets there. She does have her moments still of "wanting to go home" and being quite verbally / physically aggressive to this end, but they are getting less frequent.

I hate to recommend any other forum that mumsnet, but this one is very helpful, if you haven't found it already: forum.alzheimers.org.uk.

My children are in their twenties, sorry I missed replying to that.