Is this my mother?

[Catcrazy08]

Have been reading on mumsnet and think I finally have a label for my mother's behaviour. Narscasstic.
I text her this morning, and asked have I ever make you proud?
Am I the family disappointment?
Her reply...
That's just stupid. Sorry that's the way you feel. I'm the one ignored no matter how I try to invite my kids to do things or visit. Not continuing with this.if that's the way you feel your imagining all this. I've more than enough to cope with at the moment but don't unload on anyone.
Thoughts please?

Everything is all about her. Never showed my love as a child. My fault I am slightly unhinged, her words!
The label does not really help me.
For years ( in my 40's ) I thought it was me that was always in the wrong.
I am selfish. Ungrateful, again not my words.
I am a people pleaser, I am certainly not selfish

It's a good idea to investigate this stuff but not to go straight in and ask if they feel a certain way because:

1. She wouldn't admit it if she did
2. She may not feel that way and you're putting words in her mouth
3. It will be received as confrontational and stirring for a fight.

You're better off investigating your feelings and keeping it to yourself until she asks you about how you feel, if ever. Questions I avoid too are 'why did you do x,y,z?' Even if she is narcissistic then there is usually a reason for it. Try to steer clear of blame, and work it through in terms of personality.

I too would be devastated if my children never thought I made them proud. I tell my son who is 7 all the time, my daughter is 2.
I always tell my children that I love them.

x post

Have you seen the stately home's thread? Called 'but we took you to stately homes' or similar. There's lots of people on there with scarily similar experiences. It's good to hear how they've dealt with it. Your feelings of anger do subside once you begin to understand how this happens and why. You don't need to ask your mum about it, as she won't really be able to give you a realistic answer.

Narcissistic personality disorder is a recognised clinical condition that can be officially diagnosed only by a psychologist following an interview with the patient.

I know most cases are probably undiagnosed because most true narcissists wouldn't be interviewed. But I'm still a bit tired of people giving one snapshot from their perspective of a complicated family relationship and expecting a bunch of Internet strangers to diagnose an official personality disorder.

(Also, the definition of true NPD goes far beyond just being self centred. We are talking mad delusions of grandeur, fame, power etc. It is actually normal to display some traits of NPD, especially in very young people.)

You really did put your head on the block with that one Cat. Sorry you didn't get the answers you were looking for. These type of conversations if she's a narcissist will leave you feeling even more confused and empty.

Yes, it's odd that she's never said she's proud. She sounds very self centred and self involved. My mother is the same. But she's really nasty to me and therapists having heard how she speaks to me on the phone and my childhood stories have helped me to understand what happened was emotional abuse. I've come to terms with this to a larger degree.

In answer to your question, I don't think we are either definitely a narcissist or not a narcissist. Because it's kind of a sliding scale. Some people will have more tendencies toward being a narcissist. Then once they hit a certain point, yes, there are enough traits to consider that person a narcissist. And then for the more extreme, NPD - narcissistic personality disorder.

There's loads of information online about narcissism and I've read a lot of it. The stuff I like very much is actually acoarecovery.wordpress.com. It's for children of alcoholics but for me lots resonated even though I'm not an alcoholic. I looked at it because I know someone, who is and who's not been pleasant to me at all as I wanted to understand her behaviour better.

I don't know OP but I know that that is not the response I would get from my very loving mom. She would immediately phone to see if I was OK. If we couldn't speak she'd text "Of course. Every day. Are you OK?"

As for the label and PPs saying that a label doesn't help. Well the label itself might not help but the realisation that you are not alone, that other people have mothers like that and that it is them, not you, can be immensely liberating

Unhinged ungrateful selfish

Ah so she's not very nice to you. And you're a people pleaser. I'm in my 40's too. Are you me?

Lovely the people who would be totally exasperated at emotional neediness from their kids.

You could just reassure them...?

If I could just amend the spelling slightly please to

narcastic

I think it's a brilliant word op and perfectly describes the indirect or passive aggressive nature of a sarcastic, often defensive, response used by narcissists

Would need more info to help with your situation though

adjective relating to narcasm

You both sound like hard work!

Why would you have a conversation like that by text? If she's a narcissist she isn't going to suddenly admit that she's proud of you.

Like I said, it was a harsh text to send, yes I was looking for some emotional comeback, not to argue.
After doing some research into her behaviour towards me and others I wanted to know is this the label for her personally. I know I can not diagnose her myself, just helps to know and understand what it is I am dealing with.
I know I can't change her. I do love her she is my mum, and my wishes to be loved and seek approval will probably always continue

Never thought I was the one that was hard work!

I would suggest getting individual counselling, OP. You're clearly damaged by your relationship with your mother but I really don't think there is any way you can deal with it except by strategies for self preservation. She might be a genuine narcissist (though it's quite possible to be self centred, horrid, even abusive but not with NPD...most abusers don't have it), she almost certainly isn't, but either way you can't control or change her behaviour. You can only change or control your own to minimise the damage. Counselling will help you sort your feelings out and look after yourself, whether or not there's a diagnosable label on your mother.

Her response does sound self centre d, but ( sorry op) that sort oftext is never going to get a good response.
Your mother doesn't meet your needs, so put your energy into making strategies on how to let her impact on you less, and how to create distance between you.
If you are angry, and have things you want her to know, tell her directly, and let go of any expectation of a response. Keep it about how it impacted on you ie " I never felt loved or special. " get a therapist who can help you go through this, and start to know that she is not going to meet your needs, and while her parenting style was cruel and cold, it is you holding on to an expectation that is hurting you now.
It sounds like you have really turned it round with your kids, which is a real triumph, as family patterns are really easy to pass on.
Best of luck with this.

From the little information we have you do both sound a bit hard work. Both a bit intense maybe? That kind of question isn't really the type of thing to just say out of the blue. I imagine anyone would be a bit confused..

Cat I get where you are coming from.
I did the same thing with DH. Getting a diagnosis (in my mind) helped me a lot to understand why he was behaving in a certain way and what I could do to make things better.
I would say, you know its not a 'real' diagnosis but if that label helps yu find strategies to deal with your mother. Then so be it.
If that means you can find ways to have more self esteem, recognise you are not selfish and entitled and whatever other words your DM has used, then imo, its all good.

You will probably see, with time, that the label doesn't alter that much after all. It was just a tool to find a way to cope and improve things. Thats certainly what I have been going through.

So I think that your next step should be: my DM is narcissic so now the ways I should be dealing with her is ... and I also need to do xxxx to look after myself.
Do you have any ideas of what to do next?

I think my coping strategy is to have little or no contact, which is going to open up a whole can of worms I think. My mother is going to put pressure on me, probably blackmail me, threaten court action to see my children, turn other family members against me.
I have been here before but caved in...
Some of the comments on here have been very useful and comforting

I think your last post should have been your first. Narcissist definitely.

From what you've just said, I think you've had quite a lot of programming. You've been trained to see her as a drug and be needy, to question yourself and adulate her. If you're hard work, she's trained you to be that way then punished you for being so. Then when you dare to go against your training all hell will let loose. The wrath is basically indignance at no longer accepting the assigned role and no longer being available to be her personal punch bag.

Not sure why you would think her reply to your question would lead you to think your DM is narcissistic

I didnt read that from OPs post at all, more so she has based it on how their relationship is generally and using it as she said as a "test".
People can also have narcissistic traits without necessarily having NPD to.

I have no way made a diagnosis of my mothers behaviour, other than when I read things online she certainly fits the categories.
Certainly she has shaped and modelled me to exactly how she wants me to be.
If I go against her I will feel the wrath.
I have spoken to her today and even though I do try my best, I do absolutely nothing for her. Her words, not mine, though in my opinion I do lots for her, most than any member of my family do.
I just keep getting put down.
It ended up us having a heated discussion.
She has her opinion, nothing else matters to her.
If I go little or no contact she will make my life hell as far as she won't stop at anything to have contact with our children. Not sure how to handle that one.

Well of course you do more. You've been trained to try hardest. And the harder you try, the more your efforts will be dismissed. She treats you this way because she can. There is no recourse. So why are you doing it? I really mean why? Soul searching required. If it's guilt, stop. It it's to appease her, stop. Etc.

As for backing away, you do just do it slowly. So she doesn't notice so much. I get the comments from mother. We use to talk twice a week and now it's twice a month tops. She lives too far to come for the day so that's tough as a regular afternoon would be far more bearable. 3 nights are tough, 4 nights pure hell. And the comments "I know I told you x. Or I told you x months ago. I hardly ever speak to you these days." Ignore ignore ignore.

• We are busy then. How about in 2 weeks time, say x day.
• I could only get 2 tickets for dcs school play.
• Dd wasn't sure if she wanted to do the choir so I only got 2 tickets for the performance (at massive concert an hour away). There'll be next year.
• We are going to in laws then. I'll have a chat with dh and send you a text when we are free.

Access to your children is a privilege not a right and she needs reminding of this. My mother is very aware of this. Since we had a blow up where last year I cut contact for a while and only called to elicit an apology and got a "I'm sorry if" letter eventually, she knows her place. I'm beast taming.

Cat there's no way she would get access to your DCs against your will. Other family members will have the measure of her. New year, new arrangement. No contact. You will have much better MH.