To feel depressed for the future for 'treadmill families'?

[user1478265589]

A report on the BBC website today says more and more people are having to run, just to stay still, and that's the experience of many people I know. I don't even know what can be done about it, it's just really depressing...

• Millions of workers - particularly women - are trapped in low pay

• Only one in eight children from low-income backgrounds is likely to become a high-income earner as an adult

• From the early years through to universities and the workplace, there is an entrenched and unbroken correlation between social class and success

• Despite some efforts to change the social make-up of the professions, only 4% of doctors, 6% of barristers and 11% of journalists are from working-class backgrounds.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-37987166

Don't be ridiculous brasty. That's not how it works!

I think it is far worse to be in a job with qualifications that are greater than the job actually requires.

I know many people with degrees doing low paid, routine work.

Yes, it's become very common sadly. There just aren't enough highly paid jobs to go around. Those that are created tend to be in the South East which leads to flight from the rest of the country, leaving those areas with little or no talent to grow and thrive.

Never mind the world, the country is becoming more and more divided.

I think it was Margaret Thatcher who said 'There will always be unfortunates.'

I think it is far worse to be in a job with qualifications that are greater than the job actually requires.

The problem is I think many people assume degree = job. They don't think 'improved critical thinking' or 'wider experience of the world" or the opportunity to meet people from all kinds of places. The PP who said it gives you confidence is so right.

If you've got better qualifications than the job you are in, then it's a good springboard to look for a better job. A good degree / education will never do you any harm IMO apart from the fact that Brexit and Trump and all that makes you extremely depressed.

But shove how can/ do we change society to a more caring one when current difficulties are creating the kind of resententment that is seeing voters go for tory policies/brexit/trump etc which then screws the more vulnerable whilst demonising them.

Media is mostly owned and controlled by the right wing, the vast majority of wealth within corporations are now owned by only 10 main ones (used to be around 60/70). Education is facing yet more massive cuts, health care is facing yet more cuts, all support services (sure start/sw etc) are cut yet most of my generation moved for uni/work and have lost family support system. Even the IMF advised against austerity cuts and recommended increased spending of 2% and they are most defibately not known for being left if centre, so if torys don't listen to them wTaf! They are screwing everyone, scapegoating immigrants and benefit claimants and single mums and the disabled. We may need caring but it's breeding hatred.

I'm not sure where I fit in the 'class' stats. I have single parents, from very poor families, who very much considered themselves working class and voted that way. I have a degree, good and enjoyed but not professional career until I became a carer for my children who have disabilities. My parthere comes from a much wealthier background, privately educated, degree but non professional career. He is successful, but just earns into higher tax bracket. I vote left, he's more centrist but would never vote tory/u kip.

If you've got better qualifications than the job you are in, then it's a good springboard to look for a better job. A good degree / education will never do you any harm IMO

It can do harm sometimes, there are plenty of people who now just expect to be given a good job because they have a degree. They want to walts into "management" roles straight away. They are completely delusional about how good they are, or need to be, at their actual job to get promoted, their attitude is "well, I have a Degree, so..."

You have a degree. Big whoop. So do most people here. Means nowt though if you're awful at your job.

We have a lad at our work just now who is on a placement with us, a charity pay us to pay him to work for us.

He's 20, he's not even working class because none of his family work. His parents don't work, his siblings don't work, his friends don't work. His grandfather worked in the pits till he was injured in his 30s, he has no other example of a working person to look up to.

I am so depressed for his future, and that of his peers. He hardly turns up to work on time- his alarm didn't go off, the bus was late, his cat was sick. He's almost sick with nerves about office small talk and we're a really small, friendly bunch, he'd never survive in a call centre or a bank. I had to show him how to make the tea when it was his turn on the rota, he just has absolutely no idea at all.

It's going to take a superhuman effort by him to pull himself up, above everyone else around him, when his pals are sitting about all day on their playstations. I don't honestly think he really sees the point of turning up to work. He doesn't even have the incentive to get on the treadmill in the first place. Is that more depressing than working your bum off for next to nothing? I don't know.

I so hope he can do it though, we are all trying so hard to help him. But he's only one person out of hundreds on his estate alone in his position.

So yes, your social class and life circumstances have a huge impact on your life chances. It's so depressing. I don't even know how you begin to fix a problem this big.

I have such fear about it. then I really zone in, really zone in on my head f.basically saying the way of the world is really scary at the moment.an the reaction is to feel like we're drowning or could do,so STOP.BREATHE,TRY TO GO ONWARD WITH KINDNESS.kindness to yourself.to your fears and to the future. getting bogged down with what if wont help.its not to avoid it per say just to not sit with it to the point its actually bringing worse things.you still have to get up at some point.still have to those underpaid jobs,work with bullys, be led by mp morons.so how can we make our little worlds great,better,kinder. that can only come from us. do what makes us ok. us feel good or the goodest we can be in these times.
don't sit with it and cry.tomorrow will still come and you will either be crying or carrying on with a high chin. go forth and fight on. go with gusto to do whatever you can.put your hand to your chest right now.try it.tell yourself its ok. be kind. be caring and go forwards in the best way you can.

Social mobility has decreased. And wages have been falling in real terms over the last few years. Until politicians understand how most people live, they won't understand the wider dissatisfaction.

I live in a city where 25% of working people had a wage rise because of the recent increase in minimum wage.

Degrees can be a pointless waste of time if you do them for the wrong reasons, quite easily.

I totally agree with this but believe it should be there for anyone who would benefit from it.

It can do harm sometimes, there are plenty of people who now just expect to be given a good job because they have a degree. They want to walts into "management" roles straight away. They are completely delusional about how good they are, or need to be, at their actual job to get promoted, their attitude is "well, I have a Degree, so..."

But surely this is easy to fix? Change degrees into more general arts or science ones that aren't geared towards a particular job. Make work experience more accessible to students and careers advice more relevant. Schools could do a lot more to help kids understand where their talents are and what kind of work they are suited for, and what to expect when they get there.

It's a global regression to the mean, isn't it? The decline of living standards for people in the UK/West has come about as huge chunks of people in India, China, the developing world have seen massive improvements in their living standards.

I think life is hard for a lot of people. It is hard for young people. Life has always been a mixture of toil and luck, that is nothing new.

Looking at the bigger picture though is that the internet makes us all more worldly wise than we used to be so we are aware of issues that 25 years ago we would have had less information about.

kind of connected....heard Nick Yaris speaking today

Yes to there being more access to information available now, because of the internet. I genuinely think that's one of the reasons mental health conditions are increasing so rapidly in young age brackets - the glossy filtered Instagram world is so totally at odds with young people's lifes

But the UK is doing better than most other countries around the world in many different factors. The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) has this to say:

www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/united-kingdom/

The United Kingdom performs well in most measures of well-being relative to most other countries in the Better Life Index. The United Kingdom ranks above the average in personal security, environmental quality, civic engagement, social connections, health status, jobs and earnings, and housing. It is below average in income and wealth.

But then, people always like to have a moan

Neither of my children have degrees. They did a levels then got entry level jobs at 18. Both continued to live at home and save hard for several years before buying their own places.

They found that having experience of work was more valuable than having a degree, especially after the age of about 22 when they had been in the working world for years, both had pretty good knowledge of their industries and had done some pretty hefty training whilst in their roles. Youngest child has an intern working with her now who is desperate to get into her field but unable to due to lack of experience (despite having a degree).

Opportunity is open to all (in the UK) - education, healthcare, contraception, mobility to travel around the country/world to find work. As well as having a good work ethic - there is no reason not to do well.

If only it were that easy, Kath. Unfortunately, luck plays a huge part. So does money.

The government only want kids to enter uni because it cloaks the issue of youth unemployment for a few more years.
It's just a numbers game, massaging the figures without a care for whether it's best for the kids and the future.
As ever, workers are simply pawns to be manipulated by the ruling classes.
It makes me sick.
I've been worrying about this for years. Personally, if the menial jobs are now demanding a degree, I'm fucked.
Years of experience but no degree.
Caring responsibilities mean my hours are restricted so my choices are limited.
If I was entitled to benefits the first thing I would do would be to get free education and courses to better myself.
I cannot understand why more ppl on bens don't grab the opportunities with both hands.
My friends daughter is 18 and has just completed a level 3 childcare apprenticeship.
Surprise surprise the school has let her go so they can get another cheap apprentice in.....again, it makes me sick.
She is now looking for work in schools. Otherwise she may end up f t at Centerparc's doing the same crappy nmw job she used to do in her holidays. No upwards mobility there.
She stands no chance of getting her own place prob until she's nearly 30.....
Even if she does get a break, she'll probably be forced to give up work when she has kids, then be back on shitty nmw school hours work.
It's just shit.
I dread my child leaving school.
Always up against the social elite who can buy their chinless wonders into the best internships, partnerships etc.
It's a nightmare. The only way to break the cycle is to go self employed, work hard, have great ideas and fantastic people skills. Fingers crossed for her.

Changing- straight to it with the most important question of all! I think you really nailed a lot of problems there. The media is especially pernicious. I think stopping all the crazy, outdated talk about a free press that acts to protect our constitution is important. We need to confront the reality that the corporate nature of it all means it airs only a very narrow range of views that are in the interest of a small number.

But all this creates an issue of how we create a counter-discourse of care. I actually think unfairness isn't a bad starting point. I think if people were more aware of the systemic injustice of capital, they might be more sceptical of hate, more aware of its use as a distraction. The trouble is that a lot of the literature on this is dry, technical and bogged down in a masculine and rather naval gazing politics. I try to use reading groups to work through it. But they largely preach to the converted (or nearly so). It's how you get purchase outside that, in a way you can scale....

Of one thing I am sure. The answer is not less education. It is more and more radical education.

I would do would be to get free education and courses to better myself. I cannot understand why more ppl on bens don't grab the opportunities with both hands.

This is it!! And not getting pregnant. There is nothing to stop people bettering themselves and making the absolute most of their situation.

Shove I've no idea what you are trying to say - and I'm not stupid. You can blame capitalism, injustice, men media and the luck all you want. How is that going to change anything?

Shove is making perfect sense.... but, the question for shove is how do we get people to see beyond the spin? Supposedly mn is more left wing than a balanced representation of the electorate, yet here I find so many are stuck in narrow thinking, somewhat understandabley-critical thinking doesn't appear to be a priority of our education system (until those somewhat 'useless' degrees) and the rhetoric feeds into electorates emotional thinking rather than logical (for example many seem to miss the difference between micro and macro economics and media uses language relating to household finances to pull the wool over voters eyes- however, even when this is logically, and tactfully, explained here people still dig their heels in claiming the country has no money or that the cuts are needed so the money can go to those who need in. How is it possible to get people to see the reality? Why are people so stuck on such a hateful perespective and what can we (individuals) ever do about it (especially those of us already more worn down and overwhelmed by the damage the tories have already done).

And kath- what free education do you think there is out there for people on benefits? Other than say job centre basic computer courses etc? There is no free education anymore- tories cut dsa & suppoRT that went to ou for disabled students, anyone on jsa has to be searching for work 37 hrs a week & if they become a student the use loans like the rest of us-& ofcourse only one degree tuition is given loans for- income support? Well that would be parents with under 5s (3s) soon who no doubt can't afford the childcare to study & would be subjetted to the same fees all students are.

life has always been like this since time began it's hardly a new thing, but we are just more aware of it through the media and such. people have always tried to better themselves but many never managed to.