AIBU to not grasp some kinds of grief?

[lizzieoak]

I'm curious about what upsets people when famous people die? As an example, I was a massive fan of Amy Winehouse & I was sad when she died. Primarily thought "oh, how sad for her poor family" & a little bit thought (& still think) "how sad for people who loved her writing & voice that it's all ended so soon."

But, horrible monster that I am, I didn't cry, as I didn't know her personally and, sadly, it was hardly a huge surprise. Ditto the death of our treasured Mr Cohen. He was 82.

On the non-famous end, while I was sad when my dad died when I was in my 20's, I thought "well, today I'm sad, but in a year I bet days will pass when I don't even think of dad". A friend of mine had a parent die around the same age and he spends the whole month, every year, 30 years later, being Quite Upset. Slight difference in the manner of our parent's deaths as my dad had been sick on & off since I was a kid whereas my friend's mum died of cancer within a year of getting ill.

I totally grasp that a loss of a child could destroy a person. It's out of the natural order of things. And the loss of a spouse - I can see how that could be pretty devastating.

But I worry a bit that I feel sad but not grief-stricken about the loss of people I love (older adult family members thus far) & people whose work I've admired.

Is it just that I'm a cold fish in this regard? Can anyone upended by the death of an elderly person, or Princess Diana, explain to me ... well, just what it is they're upset about?

Hard to convey tone online sometimes, but I'm not being sarkie, I really don't grasp this (though am otherwise emotionally normal).

Anecdotally, my male friends seem more thrown by the death of elderly rellies, whereas women seem more emotional than men are by the death of famous people. Not necessarily true across society, but in my circle I've noticed this.

I think there's an interesting false dichotomy between not crying at all, and "going to pieces". I don't think, on the whole, people choose what touches then enough to make them cry and that crying does not equal falling apart or not coping.

if lighting candles makes people feel better, then fair enough, but it's not actually going to make a difference to the chance of it happening again somewhere else. well yes obviously, and nor does 'praying for blah blah' do much I'm sure.

Yet, I do 'feel sad' to hear of murder of young people. I would have thought that's still the norm.

For sure, birdy. I guess I am a little concerned (& really this should be a different thread) that it may distract & pacify us from getting at the root of the issue. Not that I know what that is, but I guess I have a niggle that candles & whatnot freeze us in inaction.

Of course it's sad, but I want us to be actors, not just reactors - though I don't know what form that should take.

Dozens of people murdered and candles are lit and signs are carried and then it just happens again.

The candles and signs are to help a community heal, they're not to stop bad things happening and nobody believes them to be for that purpose

Dozens of people murdered and candles are lit and signs are carried and then it just happens again. I think I'm feeling like sad does not carry me very far. Just who do people think they are, to murder innocents? Makes me angry.

It's the hashtags that get me. I know that if they help a lot of people or show solidarity, that's an excellent thing. But I can't help but notice how quickly the '#PrayforParis' or whatever hashtags spring up. And then it's like a race for people to make their Tweets more profound than everybody else's. I know this sounds judgey (and is, I accept my faults) but after the symbolism of the 'je suis Charlie' pencil became iconic, I see lots of hastily thrown together cartoons spring up almost immediately on Twitter in reaction to any terror attack. It's almost too fast for me to believe that the drawings are real 'felt' responses to things, but rather, speed responses drawn up to gain more re-tweets in the hope of becoming 'the image' for that particular event.

Also, I just want to point out that I find all of the artwork for Je Suis Charlie incredibly moving. The difference, to my mind, is that all of that was spontaneous, genuine and connected to the motive for the murder of those people. I'm talking about every attack since then.

I agree - many responses can appear annoying, pointless, self-indulgent etc, etc.

But still not to even feel the sadness? I'm not talking about the broadcasting of it, but the feeling of it.

That suggests an absence of empathy - which I'd be keen to examine.

Birdy, who were you speaking to? I don't see that anyone's said there's no sadness - I for one meant that my strong emotion is becoming anger as the death tolls keep coming. I don't think anger means lack of empathy. Quite the opposite! Anger over the loss of innocent life hardly speaks to lack of feeling. I'm a bit puzzled now.

Maybe it was aimed at my post?

I don't feel sad about things on the news I don't think...even terror attacks, etc.

I mean of course I have some reaction...surprise/shock as it's unexpected and I think it's a shame for those involved but these are thoughts rather than feelings.

I used to wonder if I was a psychopath (genuinely) but I'm not...I wouldn't feel upset about the death of animals if I was. I just don't have much empathy when it comes to death of people on the news.

It's possibly because I don't think about how their friends/family would feel....I guess I'd feel sad if I did but I don't see the point of giving it 'head space' as it doesn't help anyone and I have enough going on without purposefully putting myself in the shoes of people I don't know IYSWIM. I'm just very rational/logical and so it seems pointless to me to think about it in that way.

I was talking to you and responding to those posts. I no longer feel sad about terrorism, and I used to feel sad about terror attacks and of course I feel terrible for their families, but I'm just so fed up w the senseless loss of life that I'm angry about it now.

Im sorry. I didn't mean to sound arsey. I always have a blub and then get angry but really - you're right - what difference to make.

Xposted, I meant Lizzie.

My mother had been ill for many years when she died. It wasn't a shock but I didn't cry. I didn't feel much at all and wondered how I was supposed to feel. I remember telling my friend later that day and she burst into tears and couldn't speak. I found that strange.
Same when my Dad died. I sat with him until shortly before he died but again, I didn't cry or feel much more than sad.
Perhaps both times I was numb.
Everyone said 'It will hit you later' but to be honest. years later, it still hasn't.
I feel sad when someone young dies and shocked too but I don't cry.
Strangely though, since I have got older I am a bit more emotional. My daughter in Law's Dad died this year and I did cry at his funeral. Seeing my son & his wife upset made me cry.

I do feel an awful lot of empathy and sadness at things that go on in the world and yes will cry a lot at things like the Paris attacks, the family that was crushed by the stupid lorry driver on his phone, the murder of Jo Cox. I cry on my own though, I don't want attention as that would be very weird. I do have a lot of thoughts about how their families feel, how scared victims may have been in prolonged terrorist attacks. I have a very happy life and am constantly reminded how lucky I am but how fleeting it can all be.

I was very upset and down when my mother died although didn't cry at all at the funeral - in fact most of my friends have never seen me cry in front of them - it is all very private.

Yes I admit that I do think it's strange when people aren't affected by daily events.

I think many more people than you think are affected by events such as those described. The British stiff upper lip appproach applies, however, and very many do not weep all over the place. I feel uncomfortable with an overt - and it seems to me very self-conscious - show of "grief" i.e. the laying of flowers and soft toys for those you don't know. When this happens in front of television cameras and lights, I find myself cringing. It's almost as if there is a certain amount of "Look at me" involved.
Do not assume that because people do not show grief, they do not feel.

I think that nowadays my initial response is to feel angry. Now, a year on from Bataclan, I feel sad.

But I don't think not feeling - re Stumbly below - should occasion charges of lack of empathy (not that anyone's said that today!). That's not cool. We don't know enough about each other. Someone could take the death of Princess Diana terribly hard, lay flowers & teddies, but treat live people abominably & kick dogs.

I tend to assume people are nice until irl proof otherwise.

The thread is fascinating though! I do recall at the death of the Princess that people were shocked at the expression of emotion as previously stiff upper lip had prevailed - and that stiff lip has not really been restored. It's intriguing to see such an apparently sudden change in national character.

Was it Blair or Jeremy Kyle or ...?

God hate that be jolly thing. A young girl in an office i worked in died suddenly in a car crash. It was horrific she was only in her twenties. When her death was announced we were exhorted to give 3 cheers for her. Was awful.

I will instruct people wear black to my funeral, preferably with black lace veils.

Kerala

Yes, I've threatened plumed horses

Defininately going to choose music that will make people cry

My dad died very unexpectedly: I cried once about an hour after finding out, I think it was pure shock. I was all alone and it was hard to process. And again when giving a reading at the funeral, it felt like a release of pressure type of crying. But apart from that I didn't cry, and I didn't at any point feel totally devastated or full of grief either. I definitely felt like I should have been more emotional and more upset than I was. My dad and I were close in many ways, and the fact it was so unexpected and he was relatively young...I don't know, it has always worried me somewhat that I wasn't more upset. I just felt like 'well it's happened, only thing to do is get used to this new reality'.

I must admit OP, I find it hard to understand people who take things to heart so much. I have colleagues who have got really upset and cried at work about things like Trump being elected / Paris terror attacks / things happening in their personal lives that seem so minor to me, and I do find it irritating in a professional capacity if I'm honest to have to sort of indulge that. It's easier outside of work, but I have a duty to say roughly the right sort of thing when I'm at the office, and I feel that I must sound so fake when I try to say it...

It's quite comforting to see on this thread that I am not alone!

Oh, I do cry fairly regularly at films / music / adverts when they are particularly stirring (either in a happy or sad way). Definitely more than I do at things in real life. Thining about it, that's pretty weird.

Haven't RTFT but research shows that people process grief in vastly different ways - there is no 'normal'. For some people, the avalanche of grief never arrives. For others, it never really goes. You are obviously one of the lucky ones. Your disdain for those who don't cope so well is clear though. Stop doing that.

I was quite sad reading about an American man who was adopted as a baby into a (crap) adoptive family. He was born in korea & he's now being deported as his adoptive family never did the paperwork for him. His birth mum heard of his case (she's dirt poor) & is trying to learn English for his arrival.

I felt quite sad about that as he's still alive &, well, how awful. And avoidable. Perhaps it's partly the inevitability of death?

slender

Yes. I think that the tone is a bit like answering a criticism that no-one is making, and in so doing criticising others

Whose disdain slender? I haven't been disdainful, just curious. I'm truly curious as to why it upsets people when someone famous dies. Someone said words to the effect that she associated a past part of her life w them so it was partly her mourning that. That made sense to me. & im not saying it has to make sense to me, not asking anyone to justify it, but I don't see anything wrong w curiosity over how others process emotional events. It was partly because I was wondering if my way was very out of the norm, & judging by responses here, it's quite a common way to react.

I found you very disdainful, like you were making fun of me for having emotions, and that nasty tone has been in place throughout your thread. Also the dig at us by implying "Jeremy Kyle" is somehow responsible.

You aren't special, just insensitive and judgemental. Unfortunately your type isn't rare.

Please don't let this thread descend into personal insults when up to know it has on the whole been sensitive and thoughtful. Like the OP, I am bemused at the flowers and teddies for famous people phenomenon. The explanation that a famous persons death could bring back a previous grief or memory of a happier time has actually made me understand it a bit better. Although I still feel the public display is unnecessary and a bit indulgent, but clearly we all think and feel differently & the sharing of opinions is good, as long as we can all be civil.

I don't think you're insensitive for reacting to things in the way that you do, OP.

Perhaps you don't realise that what is a faintly humorous tone to you can come across as mocking - you don't say it in so many words but it's there. It's as if you're very slightly worried there's something wrong with you, but comfortably sure that others are being self-important and dramatic.

If I had a difficult time each year around an anniversary, I would feel mocked if someone described me as Quite Upset, as I was making a bigger deal of it than was appropriate. Humour or satire sometimes operates by talking about something in a very elevated way to emphasis its insignificance - making the person who does treat it as significant look absurd and silly. That's why it's funny and that's why they do it on Have I Got News For You. I could go on but I'm boring myself.