New £23k Benefit Cap.

[legotits]

AIBU to ask if anyone still supports this?

Which families is this targeted at?

Anyone who will be affected, is it even feasible to not be pushed into debt?

Pray tell, what "income protection" is there from a life changing disability or illness? I'm working with some savings but I have a disability, so I'd love to know what I can do to stop it getting worse.

Insurance policy, same as anything. Some jobs it will come as a benefit, some not, in which case you need to get your own. You can insure against death or illness, or any other disability meaning you cannot work.

The ppi "scandal" thing was just that- insurance to pay your credit card or other debt should you lose your job or become unable to work.

I doubt you'd get a policy for a pre-existing condition though.

An insurance policy isn't going to set you up for life though. It won't cover everything for the rest of your working days (assuming you can't work as a result and you're too young to claim your pension). You will likely need some benefits, unless you have a family who would help you out or you win the lottery.

Also, it's not easy to get life insurance as you said, for ore-existing conditions. My aunt has an appendectomy and they coincidentally found a 1cm tumour which meant she couldn't renew her life insurance until she had been 5 years clear.

All this wittering on about insurance policies and retraining is irrelevant to the currently ill.

So again, cases currently in Hackney County Court today

"Have 2 cases where parents with 4-6 children will get no Housing Benefit. Councils and Court don't know what to do except evict. Parents ill" .

What is the solution to this today?

What are you advocating- eviction? no HB so no bed and breakfast (unless Social care cover the cost but for how long?). Kids into foster care? parents into hospital ...is that the answer?

If not that, then precisely what?

All this rubbish about what the parents should have done is irrelevant to what happens to ill adults and their children today

Eh mini it's not just women who make crappy choices, just women and children who bare the brunt of it all

nathanbarley. You have stated that people get paid for doing 'FUCK ALL' (your capitals). You have also stated that don't have children. What do you think parenting entails (in particular, parenting a child with SN, like my own DS)?

user1471451327, if the parents are ill then they have to go to hospital. If the children have no one to look after them then they have to go into foster care. What has that got to do with the benefits cap?

There has to be a cap, you just cant throw unlimited tax payers money at feckless parents forever. A £20,000 cap is generous and if you cant cope on that you probably couldn't cope on £50,000 either.

I'll post this link again

www.independent.co.uk/money/spend-save/10bn-worth-of-benefits-go-unclaimed-each-year-in-the-uk-a7085166.html

I don't blame anyone for claiming benefits to which they are entitled. If the system is wrong then it needs to change but anyone claiming their entitlement is fine in my book.

Most people on benefits are not affected by the benefits cap. Those who are will have to move where it is cheaper just as I had to move away from all family support for work. It is something most of us have to do. Lots of bits of life are difficult and not fun like leaving a small baby so you can work full time and all the rest. It is just how life is.

There are some interesting questions above. I'm trying to work so cannot remember or answer them all but on this one:-

"Have 2 cases where parents with 4-6 children will get no Housing Benefit. Councils and Court don't know what to do except evict. Parents ill" .

1. Move in with family or friends like my family has had to do at times even if you sleep on a floor. if you have no friends and no family at all may be look into yourself and ask yourself why that is.

2, Get jobs - amazingly. I know it's a novel suggestion that you might work so that you can cover your rent. It is what most of us have to do nasty though work is. Also employment is on the up now in the UK so it's getting harder to say there is no a single job around that you could get.

1. Husband or wife could seek a job with job related accommodationg. We slummed that for a time. I slept on a mattress on the floor when pregnant. It felt rather Japanese.

Suppermummy
The relevance is that eviction (because the cap today has caused there to be no current entitlement to Housing Benefit) often causes ill people to get iller and that leads to hospitalisation and worse chances to get out of the financial blackhole.

Eviction of families leads to temporary accommodation (if social care will pay) but then what, if there is no HB?

Nowadays, as temporary accommodation is so scarce, it is becoming more common for the children to be taken into care (or the parents threatened with that).

Applying the benefits cap to currently ill parents will have devastating (both financial, and societal) consequences and we all (including you) have to both own the consequences and deal with them.

This "get jobs" is nonsense. The benefit cap applies to people on ESA in the work activity group.
For those who dont understand this means that you are deemed by the state currently unable to work through illness/disability but that there are steps you can take to make yourself able to more able work at some time in the future. (If you were currently fit for work then you would be on Job Seekers Allowance.) The law explicitly states that work-related activities must not require claimants to 'apply for a job or undertake work, whether as an employee or otherwise'.
The Government by including ill people on ESA in the benefit cap are effectively breaking their won law

user1471451327, are you saying that they live in such an expensive house that £20,000 a year doesn't cover their rent/mortgage. If that is the case then the answer is for them to move into cheaper accommodation, not to say anyone can live anywhere no matter how expensive and the tax payers will fund it.

There has to be a cap, you just cant throw unlimited tax payers money at feckless parents forever

Did you think there was no cap before?

There was a cap for each individual benefit. This cap is just a way of lumping it all together, and giving it a label so that the public think that the Tories are doing a wonderful thing.

They are not.

I support it. If you are of working age and on benefits you should not be able to claim more from the govt for doing nothing than you could by working. I realise that despite the benefit cap many people are still not getting (back) into work, but generally speaking that's their choice. It should not be the government's job to support people who are capable of work. Out of work benefits should be a safety net, not a lifestyle choice.

if you have no friends and no family at all may be look into yourself and ask yourself why that is

Helpful as your advice is, it won't pay the bills.

do this quiz to test how much you know about benefits

I recommend that everyone should make the effort to separate fact from anecdote from fiction. Start with that quiz then come back here and defend yourself.

Should you get unlimited funds to look after your child and yourself?

Since when has anyone ever got unlimited funds when on benefits

Ridiculously naive statement

Did you think there was no cap before?

You used to be able to have as many children as you wanted and claim benefits for them all, want more benefits have more children, want a council house have a baby. You used to be able to claim housing benefit no matter how expensive your rent/mortgage was. You used to be able to make yourself eligible for every benefit you could manage and they all added up to a very tidy sum indeed.

Obviously not everyone did, but you could try and catch em all. The system needs to support the most vulnerable but at the same time be affordable and not create a lifestyle choice. The balance is tricky and money is tight.

Article from yesterdays Guardian

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/06/brutal-reality-lower-benefit-cap-hits-home-struggling-families

believe

Most people in favour of the cuts won't do the quiz. They'd rather spout stuff that is completely wrong. if it wasn't such a terrible thing happening to the poorest of people, the ill informed would be an absolute laughing stock.
As it's such an upsetting situation for many, nobody is laughing.

Taking the London amounts, For a working person to take home £23,000 they would be earning £33000 gross per year, if you assume a 9% pension contribution.

On the basis that there are lots of people with families who earn less than £33000 a year, setting the cap at £23,000 does not seem unreasonable. If the intention is for the cap to provide an incentive for people to find work, and to benefit from working rather than claiming benefits for a protracted period of time then arguably £23,000 is too high.

That said, I would rather live in a world without benefit caps at all.

Believeitornot, just did your quiz, not sure how it relates to a benefits cap though? But I did learn from it that according to the Guardian newspaper 64% of the UK’s adult population is dependent on the welfare state? And That is why we need to stop giving out so many benefits to so many people.

Supermummy but each benefit had a limit.

You couldn't just rock up and get any old house and use housing benefit to cover it. There was a maximum which has been brought down.

Housing benefit didn't cover mortgage payments what are you talking about?

The average number of children per family in the U.K. is less than 2, with about15% being three or more. That's all families. So those on benefits will be significantly less. So I call bullshit on your claims.

Do the quiz I linked to

I am against a total overall cap yes.

I am not against caps for individual benefits. I think that makes much more sense. And is, in fact, what we had before.

No, suppermummy, that is why we need to raise wages to a level that people can afford to live on without the help of the welfare state. The problem is not that we "give out benefits", the problem is that ordinary working people cannot afford to live.