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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

New £23k Benefit Cap.

1001 replies

legotits · 07/11/2016 12:52

AIBU to ask if anyone still supports this?

Which families is this targeted at?

Anyone who will be affected, is it even feasible to not be pushed into debt?

OP posts:
AyeAmarok · 07/11/2016 17:43

Frankley, there are far more who don't pay than those who do.

If your friend is a high earner, then it's right that his children should benefit from that. I hope you don't think he's hard done by?

Jw35 · 07/11/2016 17:43

Who is going to pay the bills then?

There should be more help from the government when you have children below school age. We've turned into a society of working ants and family life become low priority in the current times

tinkywinkyslover · 07/11/2016 17:43

Oh yes and their rent is subsidied and mine is not. Hence they probably have more disposable income than me.

Letseatgrandma · 07/11/2016 17:43

The problem is that it isn't a choice and I think it should be

But who will pay your mortgage/rent/bills if you 'choose' not to go back to work?

57968sp · 07/11/2016 17:44

I live on a low income but I live within my means. I buy healthy food and cook from scratch. When I am worried about power bills I cut back, turn down the thermostat and go to bed earlier. I pay tax at 20% and all the other stealth taxes such as VAT. Why should I contribute to maintaining a lifestyle for those who see benefits as a gravy train.

YelloDraw · 07/11/2016 17:44

Graphista

I think there should be a 'deemed minimum' amount a NRP has to pay for his children.

And that should have ot be paid if they are or are not working. That would go someway to removing the cash in hand loophole.

brasty · 07/11/2016 17:44

You would have still got maternity allowance or SMP. Those on benefits should get an allowance for the same period of time.

legotits · 07/11/2016 17:45

You know what Jess I had that same thought.

Some names who's posts usually entertain or interest me have left me a bit cold.

Being glad people will suffer because they had it easy?
Bad enough ,but being glad about that and happy for X amount of vulnerable people to be thrown under a bus to get there is a shock.

OP posts:
ThroughThickAndThin01 · 07/11/2016 17:45

Jw are you a plant? What you are saying is gold dust for benefit bashers. Very pleased the cap exists after reading your posts.

SpunkyMummy · 07/11/2016 17:46

in other words, that curious mentality that because they have a shitty job that pays really badly for long hours etc, no-one claiming Benefits (regardless of why or how it happened, how they have been claiming etc) should be seen to be getting more.

I'm not sure what's so curious about this logic...?

I absolutely agree with tinkywinky

WLF46 · 07/11/2016 17:46

£23k for not working seems like quite a lot considering on the minimum wage you'd have to work over 12 hours per day, five days per week all year to get that... and then you'd be taxed on it.

You'd have to work longer of course if you're under 25, because rent, food and fuel apparently costs less for younger people (try arguing that out at the checkout in Tesco and see how far you get).

I appreciate that £23,000 is not a great deal to live on and some people will suffer. But it's money for free, for doing nothing, it's not a payment for your "job" of being a mother for example, neither is it some kind of loyalty scheme, a chance to claim money back from you having paid tax in the past. It's there to stop the poorest, the people who cannot work rather than will not work, from dying of hunger and cold - not to give them an easy life, but to help them get by.

The cap is there because some people will always try to exploit the system. It's there to discourage people from having large families they can't support, to discourage people from preferring to live on the dole rather than getting a job.

As in many areas of life, the honest will suffer because of the system having to be designed to prevent the dishonest from milking it.

SheldonCRules · 07/11/2016 17:46

Itshouldhavebeen, of course men can use condoms. They can't get pregnant though so it's upto the woman to ensure there is adequate contraception regardless of the method. If she doesn't want a child, she ensures it's in place or refrains from sex.

SpunkyMummy · 07/11/2016 17:46

But I do wish wages were higher.

YelloDraw · 07/11/2016 17:46

Jw35 you have to be joking. Staying at home and bringing up children you can't afford is hardly a great contribution to society. They would probably benefit from more time in nursery with improved education and socialization TBH.

MadsZero · 07/11/2016 17:47

I think it's important to note that when people hear about the 20k cap, they think that means people are routinely receiving 20k in benefits. They're not. It also sidesteps the number of people who need to be supported.

20k a year for a family of four is very different to 20k a year for a family of six or seven. The only reason people end up with this level of benefit, generally speaking, is because Child Tax Credits are paid on a per-child basis. So we are talking about capping benefits for large families here.

This leads to "if you can't afford them, don't have them!" but without getting into the ethical or practical arguments around this - it's too late. We're talking about kids who exist already.

That's who this will punish.

The Tax Credits system already ensures that - on a person-per-person basis - a household will have more income if someone is working. Broadly, a family of four on 20k will be better off financially than a family of five on 22k. So there is already a mechanism in place to incentivise working.

So ultimately, all this does is ensure that children will grow up in greater poverty. This is socially counterproductive as study after study shows that if we want to counteract the long term negative effects of poverty on a person's life (including worklessness, lack of skills, not paying tax), early intervention is the thing that works best and most consistently. Counteracting poverty in early years by ensuring that children have secure, warm homes, decent food, access to stable education and nurturing environments (and yes, abuse rises when financial stress rises), is absolutely key.

The benefit cap may make many current adults feel better. It will not, in any way, address the "benefit culture" of worklessness those same adults are so concerned about in upcoming generations.

It's the social equivalent of cutting off our nose to spite our face.

As to the suggestion that benefits be capped at the same rate as a full time minimum wage job? Someone working a full time minimum wage job with a child would be eligible for full Child Tax Credit and up to 70% funding of childcare on top of that. This is because the government recognises that currently, it is possible to work a full-time job and STILL not have enough money to feed and clothe a child. Being in receipt of a significant amount of benefit can have literally nothing to do with how hard you work, or how much you work.

Since there will always be jobs that are the lowest paid, and since we will always need people to fill those jobs, I think it's unreasonable to demand that the cost of holding one of those positions is childlessness. I would be perfectly happy if the government chose to address this by raising the minimum wage instead, but so far, that's not the option they've chosen.

legotits · 07/11/2016 17:47

Tinky are you a maths or English teacher by any chance?
Wink

OP posts:
PortiaCastis · 07/11/2016 17:47

I cannot believe people on here stigmatising, because you don't know what's around the corner do you ? Redundancy, OH leaving, it can happen to anyone
I didn't see myself as a DV victim when I was at Uni or when my Father gave me away, nor did I see the fist coming that punched my face but it happened and could happen to anyone

Unicorn1981 · 07/11/2016 17:48

She means that's how much she would have to pay if she wasn't funded to go to uni. Thing is I left my job to go to college then became pregnant. I was trying for years so yes on the outside I look irresponsible but I wasn't and believe me I felt so guilty about it. At least she is trying to get a better job. Benefits should be for people who really need it...people who have found themselves without a job because of extenuating circumstances or who are trying to get a job through education etc.

HelenaDove · 07/11/2016 17:49

Sheldon i have a friend with epilepsy who cant take hormonal contraception. "women should refrain"

Your posts are dripping with misogyny.

Revealall · 07/11/2016 17:49

One of the problems of low skilled working is the 24/7 ećonomy. Until there is a nursery or childminder prepared to offer this a lot of parents are very limited.In addition working is itself expensive.
However I can't see that 20k is prohibitive.

ItShouldHaveBeenJess · 07/11/2016 17:50

'choose a partner who can support you, FFS

Have you actually read the scenarios on this thread that have led to women becoming single parents?

PortiaCastis · 07/11/2016 17:51

Madszero Great post, thank you

Unicorn1981 · 07/11/2016 17:51

That was in response to an above post but it still stands. I worked for years, decided to do something for myself then got pregnant, I tried to temp, even driving for 4 hours a day while seven months pregnant to get to a job but in the end I had to accept no one wants to employ a heavily pregnant woman and had to claim jsa until I could go on mat leave. I returned to work a year later but because it was part time I didn't pay much tax hence me having nothing in the 'pot'. How do the long term unemployed manage to claim jsa for so long. It's named incorrectly, as is the word 'benefits'.

HateMrTumble · 07/11/2016 17:51

If you want more than that go to work like everybody else

brasty · 07/11/2016 17:51

Remember low paid people don't get other in kind benefits such as free school meals, free music lessons for kids, or other help.

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