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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To feel very uncomfortable about this Guardian article?

652 replies

KingscoteStaff · 05/11/2016 08:41

Front page of the 'Family' section. A grandfather talking about his 21 yo granddaughter who has just committed suicide.

It just doesn't feel real. Could it be some sort of exercise in writing the most unsympathetic narrator ever?

OP posts:
Smartleatherbag · 05/11/2016 15:38

And I have lost several close family members and friends to various illnesses, some mh.

Smartleatherbag · 05/11/2016 15:39

Writing it as a writer? What does that mean?

MarshaBrady · 05/11/2016 15:41

I have no idea who he is but I assume you are all saying he's an author?

MarshaBrady · 05/11/2016 15:42

And if so he is using words in his own way, no bad thing

Smartleatherbag · 05/11/2016 15:44

I've no idea what he writes. I just know that this is badly written. And he sounds vile. Imo.

DioneTheDiabolist · 05/11/2016 15:46

I found this article honest, heartbreaking and one that will resonate with many people bereaved by suicide.Sad iPost and others, thank you for your contributions to this thread.Thanks

NotYoda · 05/11/2016 15:46

I think that he's angry and he writes really pretentiously. That. together, is very alienating.

MarshaBrady · 05/11/2016 15:47

I'm often not impressed by the writing in the Guardian and not usually keen on over flowery writing and will stop reading. But there is room for different ways of talking about this, it's a hard topic.

NotYoda · 05/11/2016 15:48

Bip

Excellent post.

GloriaGaynor · 05/11/2016 15:48

Everyone uses words in their own way, it doesn't mean they're good. Or even grammatical.

lottieandmia · 05/11/2016 15:49

What gives him the right to publish all these self indulgent judgements about her when she is not here to defend herself?

whattheseithakasmean · 05/11/2016 15:50

Anger is a natural feeling in grief, I just can't judge people for not being bereaved appropriately - grief encompasses a whole range of unpleasant emotions and he is unflinching in acknowledging that. I actually quite liked how it was written, I don't see the problem with his style and didn't think it was florid or wordy - i though it was quite compressed, if anything. But that is a matter of personal taste.

Smartleatherbag · 05/11/2016 15:50

Different types of writing, yes. Badly written shite? Not in a national paper.

OurBlanche · 05/11/2016 15:52

The eloquent posts on here show how it's perfectly possible to convey one's own feelings but with great compassion and love. This guy is a writer! For me it is that which makes it so searing for me.

He has put all the invective, all the me me me , all the selfishness, all the negativity, all that negative not allowed stuff into words. Stark, unapologetic, unpleasant, unacknowledged thoughts expressed 'out loud'.

He has written, clearly and publicly about a phase of grief (denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance) we rarely talk about, rarely admit we go through. Our anger, our displeasure, our sheer hatred, of the person that commits suicide, the effect this has on those left to pick up the pieces. Our feelings that 'oh,if only they had been stronger, had talked to me, to anyone, been braver, less selfish, etc etc'.

That he, a grandfather, has written about his granddaughter like this is shockingly stark. Shockingly 'bad'.

It is that that struck a chord with me. I helped DH through his feelings of anger, betrayal, self loathing, inadequacy. I heard him voice very similar sentiments. I was encouraged to do so by the Family Liaison team. DH worked through it, got to acceptance.

I forgot to do that for myself... as I said earlier, had I read this piece 16 years ago I would have instantly recognised the sentiments and realised that I too needed to acknowledge them in myself, that they are normal. It would have saved me so many years of broken sleep, 'If Only'ing' and that sneaking feeling that I am a totally abhorrent person!

My reaction was normal, his reaction is too.

From the posts here it seems that as many people find the piece an affirmation as think it is abhorrent. Either way, we are all getting space to explore and vent our feelings... a good thing, I think!

Smartleatherbag · 05/11/2016 15:52

I don't judge people feeling anger. I judge this guy for being utterly dismissive of everyone else's pain in a published article. If it were history diary, then fine. But he's disseminated this woman's mh problems with no care for the others left behind.
Grief is not an excuse for behaving like an arsehole.

kesstrel · 05/11/2016 15:53

I agree with Jeepers that he chooses to see her actions as deliberate, with language like this:

she was hell-bent on
She extended the maltreatment to her immediate family,
allegedly
Every tactic contradictory,
glib

aspirations [this about wanting to weight 88 LB - why not use the word 'delusions"??]
she’d subjected ecstasy to her typical revisionism.
divested herself of
her wonted course
she spun the incident
her performance
I could hear the clicks as her brain calculated

He also clearly doesn't understand anorexia and the way it's about control, and presumably hasn't bothered to research it :

"I don’t know what her body did to offend her,"
"she punished it without remission."

And finally, he uses sarcastic exaggeration for describe her reaction to his criticising her non-PC language:

abuse at my hands,

I agree that living with a mentally ill person can take a terrible toll of people, and that anger at the person is natural, but for most people that would be balanced by a strong awareness that they are suffering too and can't help it. And he apparently wasn't living with her - he was on a different continent. I agree he comes across as narcissistic.

GloriaGaynor · 05/11/2016 15:53

Anger at the world, injustice, mental illness, sure.

Anger at the person because you didn't like her, understood so little about mental illness that you label her as attention and fame seeking, and resent the impact she had on your life - not so much.

Sweets101 · 05/11/2016 15:54

I was expecting something awful, I thought it was very good. I didn't find it lacking in compassion, but full of honesty and acceptance.

corythatwas · 05/11/2016 15:56

whattheseithakasmean Sat 05-Nov-16 15:29:19

"Bereaved people never get it right because there is no right way to deal with death. If the writer gets it wrong, we all do."

The vast majority of angry, frustrated, bereaved people do not write articles in the Guardian, though. You don't have a choice about how you feel about your grief, but you do have a choice about whether to take money for publishing it. He could have written all that down in an article and locked it up in a drawer or burnt it. Instead he used it in his writing career.

GloriaGaynor · 05/11/2016 15:56

grief encompasses a whole range of unpleasant emotions and he is unflinching in acknowledging that

He totally flinches in looking at how unpleasant, self-obsessed and uncomprehending his response is.

He also flinches from engaging with what mental illness really is.

MarshaBrady · 05/11/2016 15:57

He's not saying she was attention-seeking etc, he's saying other people thought or said that.

fancyknittedstuff · 05/11/2016 15:58

Very unsympathetic, cold and unfeeling. Poor girl Sad. The writer comes across as self-absorbed. The language is poor.

grannytomine · 05/11/2016 15:59

*Gosh, I didn't read that article as angry at all. confused

To me he's trying to make sense of what happened & part of what he sees is that her whole life led up to this moment. You could say "Why didn't everyone try harder to be more empathetic"; but then he talks about how head strong she was, ran rings around the mental health professionals, & will-fully refused to acknowledge her terminal illness. The only bitterness I read was towards the mental health panel that let her run rings around them (not sectioned).

One could say "That's what mental illness is, that people can't help themselves"; but the bottom line is, it's absolutely rotten to deal with when people who are willfully self-destructive. It can make you completely crazy trying to help them. One is allowed to detach when the only way to preserve your own mental health is to distance yourself from their problems.

Yes I have personal experience.*

Absolutely, and I too have personal experience.

corythatwas · 05/11/2016 16:00

MarshaBrady Sat 05-Nov-16 15:57:19
"He's not saying she was attention-seeking etc, he's saying other people thought or said that."

That is one of the oldest rhetorical tricks in the book. If you repeat something unpleasant without arguing against it, then that is to get it to stick in other people's minds without having to take responsibility for what you say. It's the kind of thing they teach you in handbooks of rhetoric.

GloriaGaynor · 05/11/2016 16:01

He's not saying she was attention-seeking etc, he's saying other people thought or said that.

Oh c'mon you can't be that naive. That's his own judgement shifted on to 'other people' so he can't be blamed for it.

It's one of the oldest tricks in the book.