To feel very uncomfortable about this Guardian article?

[KingscoteStaff]

Front page of the 'Family' section. A grandfather talking about his 21 yo granddaughter who has just committed suicide.

It just doesn't feel real. Could it be some sort of exercise in writing the most unsympathetic narrator ever?

Um, its a lot worse than i think a lot of you realise. it sounds like she was never allowed to be her, if that upset ser, her emotions were criticised for being 'wrong' or 'inappropriate' and later 'mental.

She vehmently resisted the idea that she was menrally unwell, in an organic sense and was presumably aware of the damage her family seemed persistently to inflict on her. 'telling her off' for not liking or only partially liking something she clearly doesn't like, but the grandfather thinks she should is dramatically and agressively denying her sense of self AND the right of protest against that sense of self. Its appalling.

When the joy of a situation was deliberately taken away by her grandfather, she is then further criticised for feeling like (as i think it was) the whole day was a con. he thinks, again, that she should like something just because he thinks she should, and when he was a bastard afterwards...should still like it and stop being silly.

Its more like a 'how to' on creating mental ill heatlh.

Shocking

But I don't see those 'problems' and nor do others

I think it's a horrible, self-serving and pointless piece lacking any insight or compassion.

I completely agree with TalkOfSummertime - what was the point of this article? There is not a shred of empathy or sympathy. I don't get any sense of love, all that comes across is irritation.

I've read it I think 3 times with an increasing sense of irritation at how pleased he with his ability to coin a phrase.

That about sums it up!

You wrote your post intending to convey a specific idea.

I read it as patronising, belittling, unecessarily snippy. Totally negating the struggle I had (over) shared here.

Ironic, as the whole thread is about deciphering the intent and tone of a written piece!

I genuinely think he is entitled to think any way he wants about Emma. Any way he wants to at all.

If he had written under a pseudonym and changed a couple of identifying facts but retained the rest of the piece I wouldn't really have an issue with it.

And he could have created a more fictional piece if he really wanted to, drawing on his experiences and his emotions.

But to identify her so publicly after her death feels cruel to her family and friends who may not have recognised his description of her. The effect of it is to further damage the very same people that he criticised Emma for damaging. And I honestly don't think that is fair.

That's all.

whatthe I can honestly say no. I'm fairly tired and didn't give it a huge amount of thought.

I guess I used the word as the over-riding sense I get from the article is one of irritation with the grand-daughter.

I found it perfectly easy to read and very thought provoking.

I completely agree Lass and TalkofSummertime

Although I could not have written this article, I can see where he is coming from, my son did not commit suicide, but was on a path of self destructiion when he died.He had mental health problems and this article expresses the frustration and bewilderment you feel when someone you love, sees things in a negative way, somehow through a filter which turns everything sour and hateful. Trying to deflect someone you love from behaviour which will harm them is exhausting, and, as I have since realised, very often pointless. I think this Grandfather is trying to come to terms with his loss, and trying to look back into her childhood to see if there was a point where they could have changed the outcome.

the ones I loved from damaging themselves in various ways

Kidnapped Sat 05-Nov-16 17:20:25
"I genuinely think he is entitled to think any way he wants about Emma. Any way he wants to at all.

If he had written under a pseudonym and changed a couple of identifying facts but retained the rest of the piece I wouldn't really have an issue with it.

And he could have created a more fictional piece if he really wanted to, drawing on his experiences and his emotions.

But to identify her so publicly after her death feels cruel to her family and friends who may not have recognised his description of her. The effect of it is to further damage the very same people that he criticised Emma for damaging. And I honestly don't think that is fair. "

This. A hundred times this.

Gloria, you may not have intended to be nasty, but it really came across that way!

The rose quote did sound pretty bad, and I did skip to the end of that part.

However it is good that some here get something from it, especially those who have been through sad experiences. Don't feel you have to go from the thread.

I do wonder if people who have never experienced a serious mental health problem simply find it impossible to imagine how distorted your thinking can become, and thus find it difficult to let go of the sense that a mentally ill person is being deliberately difficult and deliberately causing pain.

This is not helped, of course, by the fact that there genuinely are people who are not mentally ill, and who do enjoy being difficult and hurting others.

I found it harsh and cruel.

I can see the argument that these feelings need to be aired.

It reads more to me like a frustrated brother. Could never understand the difficult childish behaviour, then she was gone.

Didn't read like a grandparent / parent to me.

"I guess I used that word as the overriding sense I get from the article is one of irritation with the granddaughter"

Seems really unfair that as you believe the writer to be "irritated" with the granddaughter, you infer the same for OurBlanches situation.

Sorry, that was very badly phrased! I should have said some people may find it difficult....

Kesstrel please take this as intended... I don't want to dismiss your opinion but to acknowledge your sentence as thought provoking, in many ways.

It is similarly possible to re-write your sentence "I do wonder if people who have never experienced a violent death or suicide in the family simply find it impossible to imagine how distorted the family's thinking can become, and thus find it difficult to let go of the sense that a angry, grieving person is being deliberately difficult and deliberately causing pain.

We can't all see the world from A N Other's perspective. The best we can do is to acknowledge them without belittling them.

And it wasn't badly phrased at all!

Depends on who you give your empathy too. I admire his honesty. It must have been exhausting, frustrating, relentless to have been forced to watch an unhappy person make themselves more and more unhappy.
It is easy to judge him from an armchair, but I think this is a real case of needing to walk in another person's shoes before judging him.

I do wonder if people who have never experienced a serious mental health problem simply find it impossible to imagine how distorted your thinking can become, and thus find it difficult to let go of the sense that a mentally ill person is being deliberately difficult and deliberately causing pain.

I don't think you need to have experienced mental illness to be aware of that, just to engage with it in some way - read about it, talk to people who have suffered from it. Which is very palpably what the writer has not done.

I can see the distinction Gloria was making re Blanche's situation, which, as awful as it no doubt was for Blanche, is not relevant or comparable to this situation.

Cory made several excellent posts that this man, Emma's own grandfather had been judgemental and critical of her since she was 6.

The whole thing seems to have been crafted to demonstrate how superior he is. From the ridiculous over-flowery language to the examples of amazing things from he felt he had done for her, it just smacks of self-congratulation. Very odd and deeply unpleasant

And when you see this level of artificiality In a piece that has an intensely emotional subject, yet deals with it entirely dispassionately, it sets up an uncomfortable dissonance.

Can't remember who said these- but spot on.

I've said it wasn't intentional vic what more do you want me to say?

I think it's clearly an angry and frustrated and sad article. I cannot BELIEVE the posters on here who are blaming him for contributing to her death.

Until you know first hand the sheer exhaustion of coping with a close family member who is determined to self destruct, you can have no idea of the anger it can provoke it you. All this "talk to someone, it will help" OK great, but it will not cure a personality disorder or schizophrenia, for example. I'm certain that one day my brother will finally succeed in his mission to ruin his life, despite the fact that I've tried my hardest to help. Yes I will be angry with him, though hopefully won't write an article in a paper about it, because I couldn't handle the "You're vile and toxic" comments. But I am sick and tired of him.

Blanche what you write may well be true, but there is a significant and qualitative difference between the "distorted thinking" of mentally normal people, and the "distorted thinking" of the mentally ill. I would say that it is much easier to understand the first than the second: we have all had the experience of irrational blaming and resenting others for something that is not their fault.

Personally, I have absolutely no trouble understanding Winter's feelings, and I am sure I would feel something similar. What I take issue with is the fact that he doesn't express any awareness that his angry sense that her behaviour was deliberate might perhaps be unfair, given her condition. For example, he could have framed the piece with an introduction explaining that this is how he often feels, but that his more rational self is aware that she was ill.

The grandfather had been judgemental and critical of her since she was 6

The whole thing seems to have been crafted to demonstrate how superior he is. From the ridiculous over-flowery language to the examples of amazing things from he felt he had done for her, it just smacks of self-congratulation. Very odd and deeply unpleasant

And when you see this level of artificiality In a piece that has an intensely emotional subject, yet deals with it entirely dispassionately, it sets up an uncomfortable dissonance.

Absolutely.

Go on then Lass. Outline the hierarchy of grief! Tell me why my opinion is irrelevant!

I do see what Gloria, and you, are clumsily stabbing at. But you are failing to acknowledge that your own interpretation of the piece is not the only one, nor the superior one and that a piece like that one will many and varied interpretations and responses... NONE OF WHICH ARE WRONG!