Cost of University 2017

[janmack23]

D1 is applying for Uni for Sep 2017 soon, no1 child -so confused and frightened about funding. Was an associated Med Occ with bursary but of course with my luck that's now gone, but I am struggling with how she or we can afford to let her go. Earnings are a bit above £50k on a good year but we have other kids at home, obviously don't claim benefits but after student accommodation costs (which won't be covered by student maintenance) it means we'll have to find money we haven't got to pay for her to just eat and live and there is nothing out there. Can some one explain how we can give her money we haven't got.

You won't have to find very much at all. In fact if she continues to work and save, and works for three months every summer you probably won't have to find a penny. £125 a week for 40 weeks will be paid in full from her maintenance loan. £40 a week for food and other expenses is less than £2000 - which she can easily earn each summer.

Haven't read the whole thread so apologies if I'm repeating things. Back in 2005 I had a loan which just covered my catered accomodation - so this included all food. I think my parents gave me a small allowance of about £30 a week(?) - but only for the weeks I was there. About 30 weeks in a year I think? I went into my overdraft every term and worked in all the holidays to pay it off.

I think you need to look into it a bit more user 7214.

I'm an academic. I know the universities around Europe very well indeed. I have absolutely no intention of sending my DC to many of the courses there, over top rated courses in the UK. Top rated for research does NOT mean good teaching - in one country I used to work in, most undergraduate teaching was almost all not done by permanent academics as they were too busy doing their world leading research. (I was one of them.) The quality of the teaching offered was correspondingly appalling, even though the department is top 20 in the world in its research field.

Many UK parents are being sold far worse rubbish - degree courses taught in English at institutions which don't have even have university accreditation. Of course some of the courses are fine. But from what I see on MN it is very hard for parents (particularly those with no university education themselves) to pick out the good from the bad. And what value is a degree anyhow if UK employers don't recognise it, and can't benchmark it against UK degrees? Maybe it is OK for medicine but not for maths, economics, law etc.

Thank you BusyNothings
That was a clear and concise response.

User7214 I'm talking the whole of Europe. The UK doesn't have the monopoly on being the "best" over the whole of Europe. You can't use such broad statements and wipe out a whole continent's university offerings . Some of these universities are very highly rated and recognised over here as being so. It's very easy for employees over here to find out the equivalent ranking for the degree result - increasingly so as due to cost people are going abroad for education (the three universities I know about have seen massive increases in UK students going there due to cost over here). The Times and other rankings are not just rating them on research . From what I've read the teaching over here isn't always up to scratch - lots of reports on student dissatisfaction.

You've got to do your research, yes, but it is a viable option. It's called being discerning. How bizarre and limiting to wipe out a whole continent's education system as if the world starts and ends with the UK - especially at the cost of it. Think laterally. Perhaps your university in Europe won't be as recognised so come back and do a master's in somewhere more recognised. The kids I know abroad don't mention anything about not having permanent academics. They seem to have one for each module which lasts about six weeks and they've stayed for the whole six weeks. What broad-brush statements you make. A whole continent of educated and cultured people but their standards don't meet yours . And of course you've assumed they'll come back to the UK to work, limiting their horizons even more. How UK centric you are .

I have absolutely no intention of sending my DC to many of the courses there, over top rated courses in the UK.

The advice about looking into studying in Europe was to the OP who is worrying about how she and her DD are going to afford to study in the UK. If money is no object then of course why would anyone consider it. But money is an obstacle in this case which is why I suggested it as a viable option for the OP's DD, which it is - increasingly so. From what I'm hearing people are choosing it more and more and these universities presumably will go up in the rankings even more. You can't know the details on every course across the whole of Europe despite claiming to be an academic.

I'm not even British. I have family in half a dozen European countries. Between myself and DH we have worked in another half dozen. I'm a visiting professor in several countries and consult to several European research councils. Laughing hysterically at the idea that I'm UK centric.

I just find it sad that many of those who choose to send their DC to Europe will find issues later Do you seriously expect employers to look up rankings for European universities? To distinguish which departments are good and which are not? To benchmark European grade transcripts against a UK 2:1? Seriously? Do you think anyone has time for this? It's already hard for UK universities to do this, let alone employers.

If you have found good university courses, great. But don't dismiss the fact that many other parents are falling for marketing and sending their DC to institutions that don't even have university accreditation. Their "degrees" are not even degrees in these countries, so wouldn't suffice for graduate entry schemes if they wanted to stay there. (So no graduate level visas possible post Brexit - you shouldn't just assume that it will be possible to stay post Brexit.)

And the world rankings of universities are almost entirely research. There is no way to compare teaching, so the only way this comes in is via graduate prospects.

your daughter will get a little over £5000 a year to pay for her living costs. Eg rent food etc. This should be more than enough for rent and basic food staples.

Except it often doesn't cover rent. That's why previous posters have said she needs to be canny about where she applies.

But yes, she needs to earn for a year first, I'd think.

Two minutes research and I've found a course for less than EUR2k a year with eligibility for student finance and the option of paying fees in 6 instalments. Accommodation cheaper than London but not sure how comparable to a campus university outside London. At a university higher ranked than Durham according to the Times although obviously you got to take these things with a pinch of salt. Not sure how you can compare physio courses. It is four years though. Of course you have to check if a degree abroad would be acceptable for work in the UK but who is to say she'd come back if she liked the lifestyle. You can't just dismiss going to Europe when the point of the conversation is the OP can't afford the UK and this is an option.

You can't know the details on every course across the whole of Europe despite claiming to be an academic.

Of course I don't currently know about every course. But at least I would be qualified to judge the quality of any course, using my own professional expertise and contacts. It is very, very hard for many parents to tell whether a foreign course is comparable to mid level UK universities or well below the weakest of the post 92 UK institutions.

If they're so crap User7214 why did Dulwich College invite Dutch universities in for an open day as a viable option? I think you're talking out your arse frankly.

I work at a uni, over half our students work at the uni itself on casual contracts, but all work regular hours. They do things such as work in catering, bar, housekeeping and out student ambassadors earn well too!

Might be worth looking in to as it's probably easier squeezing in a few hours work more often if she is already on campus?

*our students, not out

I've been told by one of the kids that I know that they're university does the conversion for them to the UK system, not sure about the others, so they get told what their degree would be as a UK equivalent. It's not as a big deal as you make out. So limiting.

why did Dulwich College invite Dutch universities

(a) Some courses are fine and (b) Dulwich College may well be able to provide advice on which courses are fine.

I think you're talking out your arse frankly.

I know this is AIBU but is it really necessary to be so rude, just because somebody disagrees with you?

Thanks Redpony1 - I think it's going to be one of the first thing she'll have to do once arriving at Uni - look for a job, even before she goes to any fresher fairs. Seems to me that it is reverting back to the old days where university will be for the rich only. Can see why children and parents are put off further education.

Yes User - that's why I suggested studying in Europe as some courses are obviously fine, which well-rated schools like Dulwich College realise. I never said they ALL were, yet you dismissed the idea as a big no, no across the board! And you're an academic! God, it's like wading through treacle. I've said the OP would need to do her research and be discerning but it's a viable option for someone that can't afford university over here! Dear god alive. Such hard work talking to people that think they know everything with their connections to 12 European countries.

my dd is in her first year at uni but her funding comes from wales so it is a little different. On the student finance wales website there is a finance calculator which shows what she would be entitled to receive. Is there anything like this on student finance england?

Just wanted to agree with what others have said - it's not as bad as it sounds. If she saves up now, and works during uni holidays, that should cover most costs that aren't covered by the maintenance loan.

One more thing. Some universities offer bursaries, and there are other organisations that also offer scholarships for particular groups of students. Really worth looking into this.

DD2 graduated last year and worked her way through university by getting a job on weekends and holidays.

Annelouise finances are clearly an issue for the OP, so how do you expect her to fund a degree in Europe with no access to maintenance loans?

And I agree with user - most courses in Europe taught in English are of poor quality. Not all, but most.

PLEASE remember that the per week cost of hall fees can be VERY misleading.
DD is at Uni up North.
The shortest contracts are for 42 weeks and most of the kids are on 51 week contracts
Her annual hall fees came to over £6000
Then you have text books and lab coats and lab materials
Then you have sports club memberships
Then you have food
and toilet roll (they do not provide it)
and money for the launderette

and after that, money to have a good time.

I'm budgeting over £100 a week for her
BEFORE looking at the mountain of tuition debt she will face

EU Universities
factor in
currency fluctuations
political changes
increasingly expensive trips home

There is financing sometimes titchy. I've put upthread about that - perhaps not everywhere but it's there, plus the chance to pay in instalments on the one I found for physio for the OP. So many courses over here are also poor quality. Ultimately, how would you know unless you do the course? There's no database of the quality of courses in Europe taught in English or here apart from the Times, QS etc so how would you know "most" are of poor quality? Where did you get this "most" figure from? A lot about the quality of the course can be gleaned perhaps from what the students say themselves on Facebook or the Student Room etc, the UK doesn't have a perfect record even for those in the Russell Group. Again, how can you dismiss a whole education system of a continent? We're not talking about getting a degree in Somalia but first-world countries where millions are educated and seem to do just fine without a UK university. As ever it's a case of being discerning. Top schools like Dulwich College are recognising going abroad as a viable option - and this for kids that presumably don't have money worries.

From the three that I'm in contact with they've lecturers from all over - they're American, Canadian, Irish, Dutch, German. How do you determine that they're bad lecturers so the quality of a course is "mostly" poor in Europe? How will they be any different in comparison to the good and bad lecturers you'll find in the UK? Student satisfaction surveys are highlighting lots of feelings of not getting value for money - not surprising at £9k a year. Also graduate employment isn't great in this country either. I read a statistic last year, can't remember the details but it was something like the average UK graduate is out of work in the field they studied in for three years and have to take any job in the meantime. Anecdotally I've read cases of Oxford educated people not being able to get a job in what they studied. How this compares with individual countries in Europe I don't know. It'll vary a lot between countries and cities and the courses done presumably. I wouldn't dismiss Europe - especially northern Europe. From the people I know who will leave with no student debt at all it's been amazing. There's also the positive that UK employers will consider it something different and proactive to have done so could view it favourably, who knows.

the average UK graduate is out of work in the field they studied in for three years and have to take any job in the meantime.
AAAAGGHHHHH
This is what SO annoys me about much of the modern talk about degrees.

It does not matter if your job does not relate to your degree.
Degrees are not on the job training
They are life skills and analytical skills training.

I have NEVER EVER worked in a field related to my degree.
I never intended to.
Accountancy works OK for me.

I should have been clearer Talkinpeace - they were having to take jobs in Lidl and Aldi and Home Bargains and pouring pints rather than a graduate job. No, it doesn't matter if the job you end up in isn't related to what you studied - IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT! But these statistics are highlighting that having a degree in a particular subject isn't a guarantee of having a career in your chosen path. There's not much point in collating statistics on people with a degree in X doing a job in Y if they're happy, presumably, they're to highlight that graduate employment statistics aren't that good.